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Message: <blockquote data-quote="T. Foster" data-source="post: 3363754" data-attributes="member: 16574">Very good stuff in this thread, especially from S'mon and Korgoth, including this passage that I like so much, and agree with so thoroughly, that I'm going to quote it in full:A big point about dungeon-design that I think has been lost on a lot of people in the past 20+ years is that they've gotten the cause-effect relationship backwards -- they're starting with the cause, the backstory -- who built this dungeon and why, who's living here now and why -- and derived the effects from that (this is a dwarf-built dungeon so it'll have low ceilings, lots of mine-areas, more ramps and elevators than stairs, treasures will tend towards gold, gems, and fighter and cleric-appropriate magic items, etc.) rather than starting with the desired effect (how do I want my players to feel and react to this dungeon? what purpose do I want this dungeon to serve for game-play?) and working backwards to establish a cause that is compatible with that effect. People often complain about the plausibility of gigantic multi-level underground mazes filled with elaborate traps and inhabited by a menagerie of different types of monsters, and my response is "then create a backstory that makes all of it plausible." The 'Mad Wizard' rationale is the most common and best-known (because it was the original one used by Gygax, and was assumed in the original rules) but it needn't be the only one -- otherworld incursions, relics of a prior epoch, 'proving grounds' for an evil being, etc. can all be viable explanations, just so long as they support the desired end-result -- a place where parties of bold adventurers can explore, deal with hazards (tricks, traps, monsters) and find treasure.It's interesting to me to hear that WotC might be encouraging this same approach and perhaps helping to restore the idea of the 'campaign-dungeon' to the priviliged position it once held and was so rudely thrust out of in the 80s and 90s. Such a move can only be a positive development in my book (I haven't been advocating this style on D&D messageboards for the past 3 or 4 years for nothing). I may just have to stop by the FLGS and check this book out...</blockquote>

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