On trying to find a good way to remove XP penalties while keeping favored classes

[Jack Daniel]

There are a lot of people out there who dislike the idea of multiclass penalties. I don't happen to care one way or the other, but it's been noted that if they're removed from the game, the half-elf loses his most attractive feature. Another problem people have seen is that favored classes don't act as an incentive to advance in that class. It's just as easy for a dwarf to be a wizard9/fighter1 as a fighter9/wizard1. Again, not saying it's a problem... it's just a quirk of the system.

I was thinking the other day how to remove XP penalties without removing favored classes. I like the flavor they add, and I like the advantage they give to humans and half elves. So what would be an incentive to advance in one's favored class that could apply to any class without unbalancing it, or making things too easy on humans and half-elves?

Then I remembered the old 2nd edition training rules. DMs could, at their discretion, opt for a variant rule where characters had to train to advance a level. The idea of PCs training in their downtime doesn't affect the flow of the game too much, or even the flavor; PCs are assumed to be training themselves between adventures regardless. But what if a GP cost were assigned to that self-training, in addition to a PC's monthly upkeep, to represent materials & input (personal trainers, combat dummies, spell research, etc.) ammounting to about 1/20 the XP needed to advance, or 50 gp per level? The DMG suggests a great deal more than that in their optional skill/feat training rules, (and 1000 gp per level in their level-based system!) but if it were generalized to all characters, it wouldn't hurt fighters or rogues so much... anyway, the house rule. Using these training rules, XP penalties could be removed, providing favored classes were granted the incentive that it costs half as much, 25 gp per level, to train in one's favored class.

What do you think? Be nice; I'm proud of this one.

 

[Crothian]

Okay, I'll be nice. But just this once.

It's a good idea. I've never seen favored classes come into play. My groups have never been that big on multi classing that much. Plus we usually play humans. The reason I like it is I use training rules.

So, for Humans and half elves their highest level class would be half price? Personally, I'd allow each character to instead choose the one class that their character is best at. And I'd still have prestige classes cost the normal amount.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

Monkey hate training costs, grrr

But that's a "my oh my isn't it nice to ditch all those 'rather less than good' rules from previous editions" issue

If you want to take away the penalties, but keep an advantage for those races, why not give an advantage instead of replacing it with another penalty?

I mean, were you about to increase the gold the characters got by 50gp / level each level? No? Then you just replaced an XP penalty the player had to opt to suffer, with a penalty they cannot avoid. Poo!

Why not give out a nice 5% or 10% xp BONUS for those people advancing in their favoured class.

i.e. I need to have 2000xp to advance to next level. But if I get to 1800xp, and choose to advance in my favoured class - voila I advance and go to 2000xp there and then. (that was with 10%, i'd go for 5% overall I think)

Humings and h'elfses can take their current highest class as being their favoured class - so they get the reward just for following a single class through.

Carrot: its the new Stick!

 

[Jack Daniel]

Because XP bonuses is what everyone else comes up with, and it makes no sense. I want advancing in a favored class to be easier, not faster. And "material" advantages, like a bonus feat or some such, are just too much. Gold seemed to be the way to go.

 

[Crothian]

Gold is controled by the DM, so having levels influence them negatively like this is no big deal. After a few levels the cost is really affordible anyway.

 

[Anubis]

I would opt for leaving the rules as they are, considering they make the most sense.

First off, training costs are silly because your XP shows how much you've trained, and training like that, on the job, always produces far better results than training in a school. So costs are out because costs are silly and senseless.

Second, the XP Penalties make perfect sense because, well, have you ever tried learning more than one MAJOR thing before? Not easy. Try learning martial arts and how to be a rocket scientist at the same time, you may do okay, but also try learning to be a priest or acrobat at the same time, and you got problems with taking everything in. At least, that's how most real people are.

Just makes sense.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Have a favored class feat: can have an additional favored class.....

 

[Jack Daniel]

Second, the XP Penalties make perfect sense because, well, have you ever tried learning more than one MAJOR thing before? Not easy. Try learning martial arts and how to be a rocket scientist at the same time, you may do okay, but also try learning to be a priest or acrobat at the same time, and you got problems with taking everything in. At least, that's how most real people are.

That might be true, if not for the D&D argument that if you were equally good in kung fu, rocket science, the clergy, and acrobatics, there wouldn't be any strain at all, and if you got better at one, there still wouldn't be (because it'd be your human favored class) but if you got better at two of those things, watch out boy, because you're studdenly too stupid to learn as fast as you used to!

That, combined with the fact that EVERY OTHER D20 GAME plays just fine without this sytem, seems nonsensical to me. And even more importantly: if the players and the DM hate it, even though they understand perfectly well why the rule is in place, what's wrong with removing it?

 

[Nik_the_Pig]

Just an Idea - Skill points

Try this (I haven't but it may work )...

- Change the Human favoured class from any to ALL.

- Half Elves FC remains as Any and their favoured class is the class they choose at 1st lvl.

- All other rases have their FC as given in the PHB.

- Remove all xp penalites.

Now, when you level in your favoured class get +1 skill point. This encourages a race to follow a certain path without giving a major disadvantage for diverging from it. Humans get this all the time as all classes are favoured for humans (as per their racial bonus or additionaly if you think this weakens Humans compaired to the others too much).

Just an idea.

 

[Fenris]

Jack, I have been having similar qualms. But I think that using gold won't make it "easier not faster". I think it would alter your economics and you might get a lot of party infighting regarding distribution of gold when they are close to leveling.
One thing I have been thinking about is having a class exclusive skill called trainer for each class. I originally conceived it to be a way of allowing other party members to trains each other when multiclassing and used the successes to determine the time it took to train. Perhaps the idea could be adapted? Make it so the favored class gets a +5 (or whatever) and he has to spend the gold and the time then make the training roll to see if he/she succeeds. Each class would cue its specific ability to the skill role (maybe give them level added to it instead of true ranks). This would encourage charcaters to stay within their favored class but not truly hurt any that strayed. No XP penatlies or bonuses., just a measure of time and money (one or both). Just an idea I had been thinking of, perhaps it will be helpful.