Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
One D&D Expert Classes Playtest Document Is Live
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8786978" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>I can't remember when they gave shortbows back to the rogue - but I think it was pretty early on. 4e rogues could be archers (I've played a few) and this didn't miraculously break the ranger. And this is little different to the rogue in <em>5e</em> where Sneak Attack says that "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon." (I think the only non-light blade finesse weapon in 5e is the whip). And then there were other builds for rogues that could use saps and maces.</p><p></p><p>And yes they did add dual weapons to the fighter less than six months in, complete with abilities that synergised with it. 4e fighters were mostly exclusive melee (and good at it). But the niche protection you are talking about wasn't really a thing.</p><p></p><p>Not so. That's just how it was at launch. I remember some two handed options as well.</p><p></p><p>No you wouldn't. You yourself mentioned that fighters moved into the TWF niche - as for that matter did barbarians. Meanwhile Rogues were allowed bows. As were Seekers, as for that matter were clerics though I never saw a Cleric of Sehanine in play. And there was even one fighter subclass (the Slayer) that could use bows.</p><p></p><p>None of this in any way stopped the Ranger. Because actual care was put into making the ranger good at what they did - and setting the benchmark using them.</p><p></p><p>In other words pretty close to the way 5e does it by having sneak attack working only with finesse or ranged weapons and the rogue not having longbow proficiency so needing to invest resources to use something bigger than a shortbow.</p><p></p><p>Except that as 4e proved that was not needed. It was just something done at launch either because the two weapon fighter wasn't ready or they couldn't fit it in the PHB (or both). But a lot more care was taken in 4e making the ranger's TWF (a) good and (b) distinct from the fighter's which was again distinct from the barbarian's than 5e seems to want to take.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 8786978, member: 87792"] I can't remember when they gave shortbows back to the rogue - but I think it was pretty early on. 4e rogues could be archers (I've played a few) and this didn't miraculously break the ranger. And this is little different to the rogue in [I]5e[/I] where Sneak Attack says that "The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon." (I think the only non-light blade finesse weapon in 5e is the whip). And then there were other builds for rogues that could use saps and maces. And yes they did add dual weapons to the fighter less than six months in, complete with abilities that synergised with it. 4e fighters were mostly exclusive melee (and good at it). But the niche protection you are talking about wasn't really a thing. Not so. That's just how it was at launch. I remember some two handed options as well. No you wouldn't. You yourself mentioned that fighters moved into the TWF niche - as for that matter did barbarians. Meanwhile Rogues were allowed bows. As were Seekers, as for that matter were clerics though I never saw a Cleric of Sehanine in play. And there was even one fighter subclass (the Slayer) that could use bows. None of this in any way stopped the Ranger. Because actual care was put into making the ranger good at what they did - and setting the benchmark using them. In other words pretty close to the way 5e does it by having sneak attack working only with finesse or ranged weapons and the rogue not having longbow proficiency so needing to invest resources to use something bigger than a shortbow. Except that as 4e proved that was not needed. It was just something done at launch either because the two weapon fighter wasn't ready or they couldn't fit it in the PHB (or both). But a lot more care was taken in 4e making the ranger's TWF (a) good and (b) distinct from the fighter's which was again distinct from the barbarian's than 5e seems to want to take. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
One D&D Expert Classes Playtest Document Is Live
Top