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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 8788941" data-attributes="member: 7635">This is the artificer/alchemist problem: if you can make a non-spell version of something that is spell-like, what stops you from making dozens of them? During Pathfinder, a player argued that he should be able to make a dozen bombs ahead of time and give some to everyone in his party so they could all toss them at once in the same round. The reason why you can't is obviously that alchemist bombs are sneak attack dice mixed with a spell-like effect designed to look like a bomb. Any logic applied to why they can't use three days worth of bombs in one round is metagaming nonsense. A non-magical bomb should act like a grenade in the real world: you should be able to mass produce them and give them to another person to use. But you can't, because &quot;magic&quot; (or alchemy or something). So to when comes it to the ranger. A ranger is a master herbalist that can use herbs to heal? So should any druid, witch, or other learned botanist. To say a ranger (and only a ranger) can coax specific medicinal qualities out of a plant is the alchemist's bomb all over again: a magical effect that only works for one class and we've shot past &quot;nonmagical ranger&quot; and ended up in &quot;magical, but use a different spell system&quot;. Personally though, I reached the opinion that if you can refluff an artificer building a gizmo that creates a magical effect, you can refluff Cure Wounds as imbuing kingsfoil with healing essence or a ritual casting of Alarm as infusing your campsite preparations with the power of the Earth. But it's still magic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 8788941, member: 7635"] This is the artificer/alchemist problem: if you can make a non-spell version of something that is spell-like, what stops you from making dozens of them? During Pathfinder, a player argued that he should be able to make a dozen bombs ahead of time and give some to everyone in his party so they could all toss them at once in the same round. The reason why you can't is obviously that alchemist bombs are sneak attack dice mixed with a spell-like effect designed to look like a bomb. Any logic applied to why they can't use three days worth of bombs in one round is metagaming nonsense. A non-magical bomb should act like a grenade in the real world: you should be able to mass produce them and give them to another person to use. But you can't, because "magic" (or alchemy or something). So to when comes it to the ranger. A ranger is a master herbalist that can use herbs to heal? So should any druid, witch, or other learned botanist. To say a ranger (and only a ranger) can coax specific medicinal qualities out of a plant is the alchemist's bomb all over again: a magical effect that only works for one class and we've shot past "nonmagical ranger" and ended up in "magical, but use a different spell system". Personally though, I reached the opinion that if you can refluff an artificer building a gizmo that creates a magical effect, you can refluff Cure Wounds as imbuing kingsfoil with healing essence or a ritual casting of Alarm as infusing your campsite preparations with the power of the Earth. But it's still magic. [/QUOTE]

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