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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8791603" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>I feel like the issue with Psionics is an artificial one.</p><p></p><p>3E drastically changing the basic approach to Psionics was <em>not</em> something it <em>had</em> to do. It wasn't "Oh 2E failed so we must do this...", it was just the designers deciding that they knew better, and going for a weirdly X-Men-themed Psionics system that was a terrible match for Psionics-style magic in fantasy literature (which there is an absolute ton of note, albeit it's basically never called psionics, it just works like it). They could easily have stuck pretty close to the 2E approach.</p><p></p><p>4E did Psionics the same way it did everything else, essentially, so that was unarguably successful unless you objected to the fundamental 4E AEDU setup. You can't really count that because it's not a "different take" in a meaningful sense.</p><p></p><p>5E's Mystic approach was also fine. Literally all it needed was balance tweaks. But the ludicrous 70% threshold nailed it, a threshold which would also have deleted Bard or Wizard or Warlock if they'd been proposed as new classes, I note. Honestly I doubt "full-caster Bard" has 70% approval from the same people who voted on the Mystic (which was back before 5E got the massive population boost). Hell I'm not even sure the existence of the Warlock class does.</p><p></p><p>So Psionics has really only been done seriously as it's own system twice - 2E and 3E. And it worked fine both times. Or at least as well as Vancian casting - if you think that's fine, this was certainly fine.</p><p></p><p>The whole idea of "caught on" and "attempts" here is deeply misleading. That's simply not how it works. Especially as a lot of classes have seen drastic changes over the years, and no-one is critiquing them for similar reasons.</p><p></p><p>Re: Psioncist as a spell-point caster, whilst I think it's a pretty sad approach, I'd certainly prefer it to the idiotic approach 5E has had so far, where they just half-heartedly try something and then immediately give up, or try and jam it into other classes as a subclass. If Psionicists had their own spell list, didn't use V or M components, and had some modified spells/cantrips, I think it could be viable. Better to have weak representation than just skipping it apart from subclasses as 5E did.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8791603, member: 18"] I feel like the issue with Psionics is an artificial one. 3E drastically changing the basic approach to Psionics was [I]not[/I] something it [I]had[/I] to do. It wasn't "Oh 2E failed so we must do this...", it was just the designers deciding that they knew better, and going for a weirdly X-Men-themed Psionics system that was a terrible match for Psionics-style magic in fantasy literature (which there is an absolute ton of note, albeit it's basically never called psionics, it just works like it). They could easily have stuck pretty close to the 2E approach. 4E did Psionics the same way it did everything else, essentially, so that was unarguably successful unless you objected to the fundamental 4E AEDU setup. You can't really count that because it's not a "different take" in a meaningful sense. 5E's Mystic approach was also fine. Literally all it needed was balance tweaks. But the ludicrous 70% threshold nailed it, a threshold which would also have deleted Bard or Wizard or Warlock if they'd been proposed as new classes, I note. Honestly I doubt "full-caster Bard" has 70% approval from the same people who voted on the Mystic (which was back before 5E got the massive population boost). Hell I'm not even sure the existence of the Warlock class does. So Psionics has really only been done seriously as it's own system twice - 2E and 3E. And it worked fine both times. Or at least as well as Vancian casting - if you think that's fine, this was certainly fine. The whole idea of "caught on" and "attempts" here is deeply misleading. That's simply not how it works. Especially as a lot of classes have seen drastic changes over the years, and no-one is critiquing them for similar reasons. Re: Psioncist as a spell-point caster, whilst I think it's a pretty sad approach, I'd certainly prefer it to the idiotic approach 5E has had so far, where they just half-heartedly try something and then immediately give up, or try and jam it into other classes as a subclass. If Psionicists had their own spell list, didn't use V or M components, and had some modified spells/cantrips, I think it could be viable. Better to have weak representation than just skipping it apart from subclasses as 5E did. [/QUOTE]
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