One Roll Attacks

DanMcS

Explorer
New world of darkness style. Anybody thought about this for D&D? I probably wouldn't get buy-in from my group for this, but it's an interesting thought exercise.

All weapons have a damage rating, equal to the average roll of their damage dice, rounded down. Longswords are 4, bastard swords 5, greatswords 7.

When you attack, roll d20 + all modifiers, including the damage rating of the weapon. Subtract the opponent's AC, the result is the damage you do.

A couple of rules would need to be tweaked:
-Power attack would reduce your defense rather than your attack bonus.
-DR gets cojoined with natural armor, and you don't have to worry about whether armor reduces your chance to be hit or chance to be damaged any more, since it's just one roll.
-Weapon Finesse applies to damage under this rule, like all attack rolls.
-Sneak attack would need to be redone, perhaps as +2 to attack for every die that would normally apply. Extra damage dice in general would be an issue.
-Weapon focus and specialization would lose their distinction. Probably just make it a chain of 5 feats that can be taken at 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th levels, each of which adds +1 to your attack with the chosen weapon.
-Two-handed weapons would probably just add 1.5x Str bonus to-hit, to keep their old ways of working.

You'll get a couple of quirks, like something with AC 15, DR 5/silver would now have defense 20, 15 versus silver, but that's not really harder than remembering to apply DR anyway.

I kind of like that a highly skilled swordsman will now be much more effective damage-wise with a weapon than a 1st level fighter. Put the same regular, nonmagical sword in the hands of both, the 20th level fighter is rolling 1d20+20 (BAB)+4 (sword)+str (give or take), the 1st level fighter is rolling 1d20+1 (BAB)+4 (sword)+str. Against the same opponent, the master will do 20 points more damage on an average hit.

Edit: forgot the critical hit rule. Probably allow bonus rerolls equal to the bonus dice anytime you roll the d20 in the threat range. So if you are using a longsword, anytime you roll a 19 or 20, you get another d20+bonuses-defense roll. If you're using a 20/x3 weapon, then if you roll a 20, you get 2 extra rolls.

1s and 20s: If you roll a 1, 0 damage, automatically. If you roll a 20, minimum of 1 damage, even if 20+modifiers doesn't exceed their defense.
 
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This is one of those ideas that seems wrong to me at first, but I'm not sure why. Let's look at it, and you tell me if I'm missing something:

1st level Ftr, 16 Str, using a greatsword, attacking an opponent with AC 10

Regular system: +1 (BAB) +3 (Str) = +4, which means a hit on 6 or better. Average damage 10. Can do up to 15 points rolling boxcars on damage which is about a 3% chance.

New system: +1 (BAB) +3 (Str) +7 (Weapon) = +11. Hits for at least some damage on a 2 or better. Average roll (10 on the die) will do 11 points of damage. A 20 will do 21 points (and that's without the crit).

Same fighter attacking an opponent with AC 20

Regular system will hit on a 16 or better (25% chance). Average damage 10. So average average 2.5 points.

New system. Will hit for at least one point on a 9 or better (more than half the time). I'm not up to the math to figure out his average damage but it seems like it must be higher than 2.5. I think much higher.
 

JimAde said:
This is one of those ideas that seems wrong to me at first, but I'm not sure why. Let's look at it, and you tell me if I'm missing something:

Doesn't look like it.

1st level Ftr, 16 Str, using a greatsword, attacking an opponent with AC 10

Regular system: +1 (BAB) +3 (Str) = +4, which means a hit on 6 or better. Average damage 10. Can do up to 15 points rolling boxcars on damage which is about a 3% chance.

New system: +1 (BAB) +3 (Str) +7 (Weapon) = +11. Hits for at least some damage on a 2 or better. Average roll (10 on the die) will do 11 points of damage. A 20 will do 21 points (and that's without the crit).

I'm tempted to say, "yeah, being flatfooted and unarmored in front of a guy with a greatsword is DANGEROUS." But you're right, average damage here is higher. I'm not sure if that's a feature or a bug yet.

Edit: it's:
Roll:dmg
1:0
2:3
3:4
...
20:21

228 damage on 20 die rolls, average damage 11.4. Not rediculously higher on average, but the max is much larger.

Same fighter attacking an opponent with AC 20

Regular system will hit on a 16 or better (25% chance). Average damage 10. So average average 2.5 points.

New system. Will hit for at least one point on a 9 or better (more than half the time). I'm not up to the math to figure out his average damage but it seems like it must be higher than 2.5. I think much higher.

Well, it's total - AC, so he'll do 1 point of damage if he rolls a 10, not a 9, but quibble. Average damage, excepting crits:

1-9=0
10=1
11=2
...
20=11
Sum is 66 damage over 20 possible rolls, for an average of 3.3 damage.

Critting should raise that by 10 or 20% or so, so call it an average of 4 damage.

I didn't really think it would play the exact same as baseline D&D, but just be an interesting, and maybe simpler, variant. You're right, though, average damage will be higher in many cases, using this kind of thing.
 
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This looks a bit like the popular "grim & gritty" variant occasionally discussed (and at least once in the recent past, posted in its entirety) on these boards. You still have the escalating hit points of standard D&D but being hit means a lot more, especially at lower levels.

Criticals could just multiply the damage, but that makes them VERY deadly since they're based off the attack roll. An alternative would be additional damage equal to the weapon's normal damage (twice that for x3 weapons, etc), unless you're really fixated on not using dice other than the d20.

You could also just increase the armour bonuses granted by armour to compensate for the added hit probability.
 


If I'm only going to roll one die, then I'd rather not change the attack the roll mechanic and simply do average damage. Subtracting the AC from the attack roll doesn't have the right feel for me, it too much like damage reduction. I'd rather use the armor as DR variant from UA.
 

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