One-step Spellbook Spellcasting!

[kreynolds]

Therefore .... it should take two minutes per spell level in order to activate a spell from a scroll. Should it not??

From the DMG, page 203...

A character can decipher the writing on a scroll in advance so that he or she can proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use the scroll.

I believe deciphering a scroll is a standard action using Spellcraft. If you use the Read Magic spell, you can read one spell on a scroll in a minute (or one minute per page). Also, note that you don't always have to decipher the scroll to use it. See pages 199, 203-205 of the DMG for more info.

 

[kreynolds]

The magic has to come from somewhere .... either from a sorcerer's charisma, from a wizard's actively-achieved special mental state, or from something imbedded in the scroll.

In regards to a scroll, the magic does indeed come from the scroll. If you cast detect magic on the scroll, it radiates an aura of magic. A Fireball spell is quite literally stored within a Scroll of Fireball. You simply need to release it.

When you write a spell into your spellbook, you aren't storing anything in it besides handwriting. A spellbook is not magical unless made magical otherwise. The spells aren't stored within them at all. When you prepare a spell from your spellbook, you're just reading the text and getting the laborous part of the casting out of the way so that you can finish casting the spell relatively quickly later on.

If you want to have spellbooks that you can cast directly from, like a scroll, just price the spellbook as multiple scrolls. If you want the spells to remain within the book after being used in this manner, just price it as a wondrous item. You could even limit a direct casting of a spell from your spellbook to once a day.

You don't actually need house rules to do what you want. You just need a fancier spellbook, i.e. wondrous item.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

I believe deciphering a scroll is a standard action using Spellcraft. If you use the Read Magic spell, you can read one spell on a scroll in a minute (or one minute per page). Also, note that you don't always have to decipher the scroll to use it. See pages 199, 203-205 of the DMG for more info.

You'll need to offer evidence on these points. I believe a closer reading of the DMG will prove you incorrect.

Deciphering arcane writing by any means, with Spellcraft or with Read Magic, is NEVER simply a standard action.

Deciphering a spell is ALWAYS necessary, as the first step in using a scroll.

The only question is whether the second reading, in the activation step, also requires one minute per page. Or whether it is faster for some reason.

Can someone help me figure out how I ever got the idea in my head that a spell could be cast from a scroll as a standard action?

 

[AuraSeer]

Can someone help me figure out how I ever got the idea in my head that a spell could be cast from a scroll as a standard action?

You probably read the rulebook. Or perhaps this SRD page. Take a look at the section on Spell Completion (emphasis mine):

This is the activation method for scrolls. [...] Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does.

 

[candidus_cogitens]

I went ahead and started a new thread on scroll activation.

Thank you for confirming that I was not mistaken about scrolls being activated in a standard action. The problem remains though ... this should be impossible, since you have to actually READ THE SCROLL in the act of activating it--not just in the act of deciphering it.

 

[AuraSeer]

"Read" is not a synonym for "decipher."

I know some German, and I can usually puzzle out the meaning of stuff I've never seen before. This is a slow process-- at least several seconds for an unfamiliar sentence, more for a longer passage or a difficult construction. That's analagous to deciphering an unfamiliar scroll.

On the other hand, if all I need to do is read the text aloud, it's a whole different story. When I needn't the time to dwell on meanings and translations, I can recite German just as quickly as I read English. That's analagous to reading a scroll to activate it.

I dunno why you're fixating on this. Activating a scroll is a standard action; why is the underlying explanation so important?

 

[candidus_cogitens]

"Read" is not a synonym for "decipher."

I know some German, and I can usually puzzle out the meaning of stuff I've never seen before. This is a slow process-- at least several seconds for an unfamiliar sentence, more for a longer passage or a difficult construction. That's analagous to deciphering an unfamiliar scroll.

On the other hand, if all I need to do is read the text aloud, it's a whole different story. When I needn't the time to dwell on meanings and translations, I can recite German just as quickly as I read English. That's analagous to reading a scroll to activate it.

I dunno why you're fixating on this. Activating a scroll is a standard action; why is the underlying explanation so important?

Fixating? Why is it necessary to make insulting remarks like that. I just find it interesting. Apparently you do to, or you wouldnt be replying. Your apology is accepted in advance.

Now, as to the distinction between decipher and read ... I understand that perfectly well. The fact remains that you cannot read faster than 250 words/min. Frankly, I doubt you can do much better than that in English, much less in a difficult and less familiar system of notation. That's reading!!

Deciphering would be even slower, possibly more than twice as slow. You may need four or five minutes per page for deciphering a scroll or another wizard's spellbook, unless of course you are using the read magic spell, which would make it as easy as normal reading.

 

[kreynolds]

You'll need to offer evidence on these points.

I did. I even referrenced the approrpriate pages. However, I was incorrect on one particular point.

Deciphering arcane writing by any means, with Spellcraft or with Read Magic, is NEVER simply a standard action.

I never said deciphering a scroll with Read Magic was a standard action. In fact, I specifically stated otherwise. There is also nothing to suggest that use of the Spellcraft skill requires more than a standard action.

Deciphering a spell is ALWAYS necessary, as the first step in using a scroll.

Actually, you're right. I misread that. My bad. However, don't forget that you don't have to decipher the scroll when you want to activate it and release the spell. You can decipher it minutes, days, weeks, or years early. Once you decipher it, you can activate it any time later.

The only question is whether the second reading, in the activation step, also requires one minute per page. Or whether it is faster for some reason.

Can someone help me figure out how I ever got the idea in my head that a spell could be cast from a scroll as a standard action?

What AuraSeer said. Activating a scroll is a standard action.

EDIT: Caliban stated this more clearly in another thread, which is that activating the scroll actually takes the same amount of time as it would to cast the spell. Normally, that's a standard action, but not always.

What you seemed confused about is the fact that Decipher the Writing and Activate the Spell are two separate processes that do not have to be performed at the same time. One must be done before the other. That's it.

 

[AuraSeer]

Fixating? Why is it necessary to make insulting remarks like that. I just find it interesting. Apparently you do to, or you wouldnt be replying. Your apology is accepted in advance.

Apology? I hope you're prepared to wait a while. I've said nothing that merits an apology.

If I told you off for your condescension, then I might see fit to apologize. Probably not, but I might.

Now, as to the distinction between decipher and read ... I understand that perfectly well. The fact remains that you cannot read faster than 250 words/min.

I never said I could. I was merely pointing out that reciting something out loud, especially when you're already familiar with the text, is far faster than translating meaning from an unfamiliar language.

Activating a scroll is innately different from translating magical writing. I was pointing out one possible explanation.

Frankly, I doubt you can do much better than that in English, much less in a difficult and less familiar system of notation. That's reading!!

Well now. It's entirely irrelevant, but since you asked, I decided to time myself, using the first post of this thread. In one six-second round I got as far as the word "minimum"-- 42 words, if I've counted correctly. That's 420 words per minute. Not even close to the world record of 637, but faster than I would have expected.

But back to the topic.

You still haven't explained why a scroll must necessarily contain more than a page of text. I haven't seen that specified anywhere in the rules, but perhaps I missed it. If you have a rules cite, please refer to the appropriate page in the books or the SRD.

In the absence of a specific rule, nothing says that scrolls must be long. Maybe an average scroll consists of 25 words or less, which would make reading it a one-round task, even at 250 wpm.