Online Digital Tools Disappearance Risk Discussion

[Thomas Shey]

Sorry. I wasn't trying to be alarmist or deceptive. Is there a better title you'd suggest? Perhaps I can edit it.

I see you followed Voadam's suggestion, and that appears to more accurately reflect what you were talking about.

 

[aramis erak]

I've lost access to several dozen PDFs over the years, due to drive crashes and the point of sale having gone out of business.
Several more were taken down from still extant services; many of those were later restored. (Glares in WotC's general direction.)

 

[Thomas Shey]

Its reached the point where I have to think if taking proper precautions, losing a PDF is probably no more common than losing a physical book (though you do have the issue with licensed products that its still sometimes possible to get a physical book, but the PDFs vanish; of course the other side is often the PDF of an older book is often more accessible than physical copies).

 

[MNblockhead]

I'm more concerned about content I create, which is where I depend much more on tools. I put a LOT of time building my world RealmWorks, which was at least installed software, so I still have access to it, even though it is no longer developed and barely supported by Lone Wolf Development. With database tools like that migrating content is a pain, so I am shy about putting too much of my stuff in systems like that. I like World Anvil, for example, but I worry even more about content lock in.

When it comes to purchasing content, it depends. I'm more worried about my Kindle books than D&D Beyond. I really don't like the idea that I can buy a book and have access to it removed or have content changed via legal actions, etc. For literature and reference materials, my Kindle library has replaced my physical library. I only keep physical books if they are display worthy, have nolstalgic value, or are the kind of reference book that is more convenient to have in a physical format.

For D&D I buy many of the books in physical format because I enjoy paging through them and just like having a bookshelf of the books. But I don't buy every 5e book. I also have a D&D Beyond subscription. I don't mind if that content changes because I see it as just the current, constantly updated system rules and adventure content. While it is double paying in a sense, I still find it worth it because I can link D&D Beyond to my VTT without paying an additional cost. The D&D website and offline app are all well designed and is what I rely on in game and most of the time when prepping games. I would be nice to have PDFs of the D&D books just for archiving, but I would still prefer to use D&D Beyond over PDFs.

If D&D Beyond were to disappear that would be annoying, but I have physical copies of the most important books to me and finding used copies of books I don't have should be easy to acquire for a long time to come.

 

[Scars Unseen]

I prefer installed tools that can be used offline to online tools, especially in cases like D&D, where support not only can, but is likely to evaporate once WotC moves on to a new edition, regardless of whether I'm done with the previous one of not. Price aside, the way WotC treated 4E's online tools when 5E came out steered me away from even considering D&D Beyond. I can still pull up my AD&D Core Rules 2.0 software and Forgotten Realms Atlas if I wanted to use them for any reason. Once WotC pulls licensing or Curse drops support for D&D Beyond, that's it, and I want to keep using it, too bad.

I know some people still feel the advantages of online only tools are worth the downsides, but for my part, I'd rather go to the effort to build something for my own personal use than spend money on a rug waiting to be pulled out from under me.

 

[Umbran]

I know some people still feel the advantages of online only tools are worth the downsides, but for my part, I'd rather go to the effort to build something for my own personal use than spend money on a rug waiting to be pulled out from under me.

I think I used D&D beyond for gaming for a year or more before paying any money. Not that your choice is a wrong one, but it seems to focus on the "spend", when you may not need to do so.

 

[Scars Unseen]

I think I used D&D beyond for gaming for a year or more before paying any money. Not that your choice is a wrong one, but it seems to focus on the "spend", when you may not need to do so.

That's true. I suppose I should amend that stance by saying there's a certain dependency investment that needs to be considered as well. Whether it's an online tool, a customized offline app or an Excel file, getting accustomed to using digital assistance is going to affect how you interact with the game itself. Having that tool removed by someone else's will has the risk of negatively affecting how you perceive the game itself (there's some evidence of that in a few of the posts in this thread). Even if it doesn't, that interruption makes for a massive inconvenience as, at a minimum, you now have to either find a substitute or simply do without.

Not as big an issue if you already know you're going to jump to whatever comes next anyway, but then if you ever want to go back...

 

[billd91]

I think I used D&D beyond for gaming for a year or more before paying any money. Not that your choice is a wrong one, but it seems to focus on the "spend", when you may not need to do so.

You personally may not need to do so if you're playing someone else's game, but in order to get the resources for your game beyond the basic rules, chances are your DM did need to do so and subscribe.

 

[Umbran]

That's true. I suppose I should amend that stance by saying there's a certain dependency investment that needs to be considered as well. Whether it's an online tool, a customized offline app or an Excel file, getting accustomed to using digital assistance is going to affect how you interact with the game itself.

So, you seem to be sliding past the fact that a written character sheet is also a tool you can become dependent on.

Unless you keep all the game information in your head, ANY and EVERY tool you choose will tend to impact how you interact with the game.

Having that tool removed by someone else's will has the risk of negatively affecting how you perceive the game itself (there's some evidence of that in a few of the posts in this thread). Even if it doesn't, that interruption makes for a massive inconvenience as, at a minimum, you now have to either find a substitute or simply do without.

Ever have someone steal your physical game bag with your books and character sheets in it? Or even have players who forget them? Those physical artifacts can be lost or misplaced, and that creates interruption and inconvenience as well.

 

[Umbran]

You personally may not need to do so if you're playing someone else's game, but in order to get the resources for your game beyond the basic rules, chances are your DM did need to do so and subscribe.

Maybe next time maybe ask what was happening, rather than telling me what my own group was doing? Because you are incorrect, and the assumption of ignorance you're making doesn't come off well.

We started without paying any money or sharing content. Individuals just made their characters in D&DB. We added content individual players didn't have in the free offering level as homebrew creations. After we had established the general utility, the GM decided to spend money on a subscription.