PrecociousApprentice
First Post
I intend to play 4e without minis or a battle grid over the interwebs. Sounds heretical, but stay tuned, and you too may be able to accomplish this seemingly impossible task.
To start, I am Old Skool. Not even the type of old school that is cool anymore. I started playing D&D at the age of ten in 1988. I went through BECMI, AD&D, AD&D 2nd edition, took a break for a bit, and then came back to 3.5. I have been ready for 4e for a while now. 4e seems to be exactly the type of game that I have always wanted to play.
I am ready to try more than just a new edition. I will be launching my game into cyberspace as well. I have been sans group for a while now, with no time to find a new one. I have tried a little PbP, and this has been fun, but the play style has been different than what I am looking for. Having a day to think about what to write and the ability to edit before posting can create some really interesting RP stories. For me, this comes at a cost, for I lose a little of the immersion because I have so much time to think. It also can take three weeks to get through one combat. I have also looked into online tabletops. This form of gaming doesn’t really fit my style either. I have never liked miniatures. The gods-eye perspective just doesn’t preserve the immersion that I am seeking in my RPing. There is also an element of min-maxing your move until it takes you 30 minutes of playtime to decide on something that takes three seconds in-game to happen that I am hoping to avoid. Ruins it for me.
Now before anyone jumps all up in my face about “minis are teh uber!” and “online tabletops are the only way to play!” or “maybe you should find a different game to play than 4e,” I would like to say that this is just how I am going to accomplish playing our hobby. You can play any way you want, and I hope you have fun. For those that would say to me “Hey bone head, I already do this. No news here.” I would like to say, I have never heard of it before now. I just want to let some people who share my game style know how I am going to accomplish it over the Internet. I would love to hear your take on this and maybe share some ideas and tools. While it may appear that 4e is miniature intensive, minor tweaks are all that is required to eliminate the grid without losing the tactical elements in what appears to be a fantastic combat system. For some elements of the game, real time play is not necessary, and some elements are definitely enhanced if played in real time. There are tools for all of this.
The game style that I am looking for is a mostly text based communication style, with a little VOIP thrown in now and then, and mostly in real time. I intend to use text chat for the majority of the gaming, with message boards for the slower out-of-combat stuff, and VOIP for some of the more complicated combat stuff. Since I won’t be using a combat grid I will be using a document-sharing site for some of the map stuff and a little online whiteboarding for the more complicated combat mapping. With all of the distances being kept approximate, the immersion factor will be retained, prep time will be lessened, and in game communications will be streamlined to what I consider important. Namely, RP and action.
The rules that I will be using for combat are basically outlined in this post.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=222338
What it comes down to is conceptualizing little melee foci around the battlefield, having some abstract ranges to arrange and connect them, and having movement abilities grant little combat advantages like splitting and clustering enemies and allies. Read the post, I won’t recreate the whole thing here. It has some interesting ideas, and quotes Mike Mearls on 4e without a combat grid. I will likely clean the ideas up a little so they match my tastes more, but they are a fantastic start.
I discovered this interesting tool a while back, http://trisrpg.bronzeforge.com/index.htm, and while TRIS does most of what I want, it doesn’t fit my needs perfectly. It is also written for Windows, and I use a Mac. It did give me some interesting ideas though.
For the tools that I will use, I have decided on three main websites. This may sound like it makes your play space choppy and difficult to maneuver, but I am pretty sure it won’t. People use this stuff for business all the time. It seems to work well for much more complicated applications than I intend to use. Here are the main tools that I will use.
Campfire (http://www.campfirenow.com/) is an interesting web based chat program that allows you to create persistent private chat rooms, and also archives the chats. This creates an online record that is similar to a PbP game, but is run in real time. You can create as many chat rooms as you like, name them anything, and administer them however you like. It is also free for small groups. This gives me the ability to have an IC chat, an OOC chat, a non-game related chat, and an IC chat for characters that are not currently in on the main action. This was an interesting idea that I borrowed from TRIS. I can also split the group by creating new chat rooms. This could create some interesting dramatic tension.
Basecamp (http://www.basecamphq.com/?source=footer) is a web based project collaboration site with features that include document sharing, collaborative writing, task management, message boards, and calendar applications, and it is free. It is also linked to Campfire. Between Campfire and Basecamp, all I am missing is VOIP and whiteboarding.
That is where Twiddla comes in. Twiddla (http://www.twiddla.com/) is an online whiteboard that includes a real time collaborative whiteboard, text chat that uses Jabber accounts like gmail, and VOIP that uses Skype accounts, all rolled into one. This site should fulfill all my combat needs, with the non-complicated mapping ability of a whiteboard, the Jabber chats for dice rolling, and the VOIP to keep things going fast. The dice rolling will require a Jabber client that includes a dice roller, but most clients have this ability, or you can easily find scripts for any of them that don’t. Twiddla could be all that is necessary for most groups, but the flexibility of Camfire and the collaborative power of Basecamp really add to a game. Together, this suite of tools should keep things in a narrative space, losing neither the speed of face-to-face gaming, nor most of the tactical nature of combat in 4e.
There are many other applications and websites that could also be used. Ventrillo, Skype, etc. for VOIP, GoogleDocs etc. for document sharing, ICQ etc. for chat, EnWorld etc. for message boarding….. I just like the ones above the best at the moment. What it all comes down to though is having some real time communication ability, a way to share documents, and a way to collaboratively draw, all on the Internet. DDI should accomplish this well for those who like that style of game, but it will cost you. On top of that, it doesn’t fit all styles of game well, and that is where my work around will come in. I will get a highly immersive and real time game with minimum prep time and no commute. The Holy Grail of gaming.
To start, I am Old Skool. Not even the type of old school that is cool anymore. I started playing D&D at the age of ten in 1988. I went through BECMI, AD&D, AD&D 2nd edition, took a break for a bit, and then came back to 3.5. I have been ready for 4e for a while now. 4e seems to be exactly the type of game that I have always wanted to play.
I am ready to try more than just a new edition. I will be launching my game into cyberspace as well. I have been sans group for a while now, with no time to find a new one. I have tried a little PbP, and this has been fun, but the play style has been different than what I am looking for. Having a day to think about what to write and the ability to edit before posting can create some really interesting RP stories. For me, this comes at a cost, for I lose a little of the immersion because I have so much time to think. It also can take three weeks to get through one combat. I have also looked into online tabletops. This form of gaming doesn’t really fit my style either. I have never liked miniatures. The gods-eye perspective just doesn’t preserve the immersion that I am seeking in my RPing. There is also an element of min-maxing your move until it takes you 30 minutes of playtime to decide on something that takes three seconds in-game to happen that I am hoping to avoid. Ruins it for me.
Now before anyone jumps all up in my face about “minis are teh uber!” and “online tabletops are the only way to play!” or “maybe you should find a different game to play than 4e,” I would like to say that this is just how I am going to accomplish playing our hobby. You can play any way you want, and I hope you have fun. For those that would say to me “Hey bone head, I already do this. No news here.” I would like to say, I have never heard of it before now. I just want to let some people who share my game style know how I am going to accomplish it over the Internet. I would love to hear your take on this and maybe share some ideas and tools. While it may appear that 4e is miniature intensive, minor tweaks are all that is required to eliminate the grid without losing the tactical elements in what appears to be a fantastic combat system. For some elements of the game, real time play is not necessary, and some elements are definitely enhanced if played in real time. There are tools for all of this.
The game style that I am looking for is a mostly text based communication style, with a little VOIP thrown in now and then, and mostly in real time. I intend to use text chat for the majority of the gaming, with message boards for the slower out-of-combat stuff, and VOIP for some of the more complicated combat stuff. Since I won’t be using a combat grid I will be using a document-sharing site for some of the map stuff and a little online whiteboarding for the more complicated combat mapping. With all of the distances being kept approximate, the immersion factor will be retained, prep time will be lessened, and in game communications will be streamlined to what I consider important. Namely, RP and action.
The rules that I will be using for combat are basically outlined in this post.
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=222338
What it comes down to is conceptualizing little melee foci around the battlefield, having some abstract ranges to arrange and connect them, and having movement abilities grant little combat advantages like splitting and clustering enemies and allies. Read the post, I won’t recreate the whole thing here. It has some interesting ideas, and quotes Mike Mearls on 4e without a combat grid. I will likely clean the ideas up a little so they match my tastes more, but they are a fantastic start.
I discovered this interesting tool a while back, http://trisrpg.bronzeforge.com/index.htm, and while TRIS does most of what I want, it doesn’t fit my needs perfectly. It is also written for Windows, and I use a Mac. It did give me some interesting ideas though.
For the tools that I will use, I have decided on three main websites. This may sound like it makes your play space choppy and difficult to maneuver, but I am pretty sure it won’t. People use this stuff for business all the time. It seems to work well for much more complicated applications than I intend to use. Here are the main tools that I will use.
Campfire (http://www.campfirenow.com/) is an interesting web based chat program that allows you to create persistent private chat rooms, and also archives the chats. This creates an online record that is similar to a PbP game, but is run in real time. You can create as many chat rooms as you like, name them anything, and administer them however you like. It is also free for small groups. This gives me the ability to have an IC chat, an OOC chat, a non-game related chat, and an IC chat for characters that are not currently in on the main action. This was an interesting idea that I borrowed from TRIS. I can also split the group by creating new chat rooms. This could create some interesting dramatic tension.
Basecamp (http://www.basecamphq.com/?source=footer) is a web based project collaboration site with features that include document sharing, collaborative writing, task management, message boards, and calendar applications, and it is free. It is also linked to Campfire. Between Campfire and Basecamp, all I am missing is VOIP and whiteboarding.
That is where Twiddla comes in. Twiddla (http://www.twiddla.com/) is an online whiteboard that includes a real time collaborative whiteboard, text chat that uses Jabber accounts like gmail, and VOIP that uses Skype accounts, all rolled into one. This site should fulfill all my combat needs, with the non-complicated mapping ability of a whiteboard, the Jabber chats for dice rolling, and the VOIP to keep things going fast. The dice rolling will require a Jabber client that includes a dice roller, but most clients have this ability, or you can easily find scripts for any of them that don’t. Twiddla could be all that is necessary for most groups, but the flexibility of Camfire and the collaborative power of Basecamp really add to a game. Together, this suite of tools should keep things in a narrative space, losing neither the speed of face-to-face gaming, nor most of the tactical nature of combat in 4e.
There are many other applications and websites that could also be used. Ventrillo, Skype, etc. for VOIP, GoogleDocs etc. for document sharing, ICQ etc. for chat, EnWorld etc. for message boarding….. I just like the ones above the best at the moment. What it all comes down to though is having some real time communication ability, a way to share documents, and a way to collaboratively draw, all on the Internet. DDI should accomplish this well for those who like that style of game, but it will cost you. On top of that, it doesn’t fit all styles of game well, and that is where my work around will come in. I will get a highly immersive and real time game with minimum prep time and no commute. The Holy Grail of gaming.
For about 8 years on and off I ran 3e (and HERO) on a purely text-based program (a MUCK, for the interested). It was a real PitA to get across positioning and placement, and people keeping track of where everything was. Not to mention AoOs. Yikes!
