Only one sneak attack per spell???

[Prism]

But what spell is there that you can split like that? The only ones I know of were in 3rd edition. CA updated the spells to 3.5 and you can't do that anymore. The only spell I know of in 3.5 in scorching ray. There's always metamagic feats to split ray or twin spell. But those come with thier own cost.

You could also include telekinesis as this allows up to 15 attacks as a volley all which would qualify for sneak damage. I would imagine that the authors would like the freedom to bring out more volley spells without worrying about balance too. There are a few in FR

When you resolve the spell, you get your full attack bonus with each missile. There's no penalty for making multiple attacks with a spell. You can crit with each one and improved crit applies to each missile. To me that says that each missile has full accuracy.

That is one of the main reasons this shouldn't be allowed for balance reasons. A non spell casting attack lets say from a rogue has to apply iterative -5 penalties to each attack and so after the first the chances of hitting go down. A volley spell does not have to pay this cost - all attacks from a scorching ray are at full attack bonus. Also being able to move and cast rather than taking a full round action is incredibly useful to get within 30'

I'd buy the "it's another wacky rule for balance" excuse. But other than that it just doesn't feel fair. The worst case scenario I can come up with is a caster 7/rogue 3/arcane trickster 10. He could cast scorching ray and get three missiles for 4d6+7d6 sneak attack damage. For a total of 33d6 if all the missiles hit. Where as a meteor swarm does 24d6 for a normal caster. Of course a 20th level rogue could get three touch attacks with brilliant energy arrows for 33d6 + 3x weapon bonus on a full attack as well, but that would cost him 3k gp for that full attack.

I absolutely agree that it is for balance reasons. Being able to cast as a standard action, do multiple sneaks at full attack bonus, move and then quicken the whole thing again is very overpowered. My worse case scenario for the same arcane trickster is moving a distance into 30' range then doing 15 sneak attacks with telekinesis = 105d6 followed by a quickened scorching ray doing another 21d6 sneak. I've ignored the actual spell damage itself as most things would be dead by this point in 1 round with a 5th and 2nd (possibly adjusted to 6th) level spell

 

[werk]

Why is it that a rogue can attack multiple times and get sneak attack damage on each attack while a rouge/caster can only get sneak attack once no matter how many attacks he gets with a spell?

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I have a quick question...
I've seen it on here a few times, where do people get that you can use a spell as a sneak attack? The wording in sneak attack is vague, because it calls it a 'strike' against an opponent. But I was curious if it specifically calls out that spells can be used as sneaks.

I'll take my answer off the air...

 

[Prism]

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I have a quick question...
I've seen it on here a few times, where do people get that you can use a spell as a sneak attack? The wording in sneak attack is vague, because it calls it a 'strike' against an opponent. But I was curious if it specifically calls out that spells can be used as sneaks.

I'll take my answer off the air...

It doesn't specifically talk about sneak attacks on spells in the PHB IIRC but it does state what type of attacks qualify for a sneak attack. Spells with ranged touch or touch as the target are also attacks (they make an attack roll) and therefore can be used to sneak. Is is discussed in the main FAQ I think, in complete arcane (P86) and also here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a

 

[werk]

It doesn't specifically talk about sneak attacks on spells in the PHB IIRC but it does state what type of attacks qualify for a sneak attack. Spells with ranged touch or touch as the target are also attacks (they make an attack roll) and therefore can be used to sneak. Is is discussed in the main FAQ I think, in complete arcane (P86) and also here http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040309a

Awesome, thanks!

 

[Ahrimon]

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I have a quick question...
I've seen it on here a few times, where do people get that you can use a spell as a sneak attack? The wording in sneak attack is vague, because it calls it a 'strike' against an opponent. But I was curious if it specifically calls out that spells can be used as sneaks.

I'll take my answer off the air...

It's also mentioned in Complete Arcane. I don't have a page number, but it comes right out and says that you can sneak attack with spells.

 

[Ahrimon]

Hmm, I don't recall that from T&B, but Complete Arcane has updated versions of Touch Spell Specialization and Ranged Spell Specialization; they require the appropriate Weapon Focus and caster level 4th.

Hmm, I must have missed it last time I looked. I'll have to scour the book now.

Thanks

 

[Staffan]

2. It doesn't make sense. They're fired as a volley, meaning they all are fired at the same time. You cannot get the precision needed to sneak attack someone on a dozen different targets all over the place. You can concentrate on one, the others are just quick shots.

Then again, spells which use the normal multiple attack mechanic would allow sneak attacks on each one. The only ones I can think of off-hand are produce flame and chill touch though.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Then again, spells which use the normal multiple attack mechanic would allow sneak attacks on each one. The only ones I can think of off-hand are produce flame and chill touch though.

Of course, they're no volleys, after all.

If you move away from core D&D, you get far more opportunities for volleys: Take Elements of Magic, for example: Use any evoke list, enhance range, effect and area, and choose ranged touch instead of saving throw.