[OOC]Gormenghast, an ArM campaign [full]

[Ghostknight]

Strahd: If Yair is playing straight from the book- The Bjornaer have a special Virtue called "Follower of Bjornaer". This lets you take on the animal form of your "heart beast", you are restricted to that single animal though shape changing spells can be used as normal. For a non-combat worthy form it is a +1 virtue, for a combat worthy form +2.

Someone: Careful with being Jewish- seems like a lot of pepole in this group are Jewish (Yair and Strahd in Israel, myself an Orthodox jew in South Africa.) Also, at this point in time in Medieval Europe, Jews were unpopular. they were moneylenders, not out of choice, but because they were forced into it by local nobility (everyone else forbidden from it due to the Church not allowing anyone Christians to charge each other interest.) A Jew was required to wear a special hat when amongst non-Jews and was not allowed in many public institutions (such as universities- those generally being run by the Church and required you to be Christian to enter.)

Another constraint is that most Jews at this time were observant- you would not be able to travel on the Sabath, would have dietary problems etc. Also, the use of magic is strictly forbidden- Kaballah being the closest thing. (If I recall correctly, in one of my old 3rd ed supplements it refers to their being an uneasy truce between the Jewish Kaballists and the Hermetic order). A jew in the Order of Hermes would be considered an Apikoros (heretic) and would need to keep his affiliation secret. Of course, the above is all subject to Yair changing it as he sees fit for his game

 

[Yair]

Someone - By the way, we are not russion jews, we born in Israel and not Russia.
Yair - my character will be a simple local man, slim and not tall, 1.50 meter, that love the secrets and dense of the city and the animals that lurks with in and survive in this cruel world, I'll be Bjornaer.

can i shift into - crow, rat, dog and other city denizens?
as for covenant - Gormenghast sounds great.

Gormenghast 2, Kromeer 1
A city-focused Bjornaer is a concept I haven't seen yet, I'll be glad to whip one up.

P.S, Someone said descended from Russia, an he's absolutely right - there are plenty of those around. In-fact I'm descended from the Czech (jews), who are very near.

 

[Yair]

Strahd: If Yair is playing straight from the book- The Bjornaer have a special Virtue called "Follower of Bjornaer". This lets you take on the animal form of your "heart beast", you are restricted to that single animal though shape changing spells can be used as normal. For a non-combat worthy form it is a +1 virtue, for a combat worthy form +2.

Strahd asked me to take care of the rule-details, so I didn't go into all of that. But of course you are right. I'll be posting his character today.

Someone: Careful with being Jewish- seems like a lot of pepole in this group are Jewish (Yair and Strahd in Israel, myself an Orthodox jew in South Africa.) ... [snip a lot of true things]
Of course, the above is all subject to Yair changing it as he sees fit for his game

Personally I don't have a problem with anyone playing a Jew, including misprotraying them (this is only a game) but I am not observant. If it would trouble you, however, then perhaps it is not a good idea?
As far as this game is concerned, I am willing to allow a lot of slack. The eastern church was generally much more tolerant of jews than in the west, and it may be that they are not prosecuted at all locally at this time if this suits the player. Or maybe pogroms are the weekly enterteinment. I'll go with whatever works for the player and character.
As far as wizardry is concerned - again, this can certainly be stretched. It may be that goyim [non-jews] can do whatever they like, and even that a jew may benefit from it if he doesn't request it (like a goy can light fire in Shabat). It is also possible that he is simply non-observant; while it is true jews were pretty observant, there were certainly individual exceptions.
BTW, the book that talks about judaism in Mythic Europe is Kabbalah: Mythic Judaism, and is damn fine one. I'm afraid anyone versed in it will know more about judaism then me I don't want to include its rules material, generally speaking, but it can provide excellent background for those interested.

I would find depicting jeduaism as diabolism distasteful. Anything beyond that I'm willing to leave to player interpertations and desires. It's a game. If anyone feels a jew character may be a problem, however, now is definitely the right time to say so.

 

[Ghostknight]

Personally I don't have a problem with anyone playing a Jew, including misprotraying them (this is only a game) but I am not observant. If it would trouble you, however, then perhaps it is not a good idea?

Nah- I even got involved in a testament game here for a while.

As far as this game is concerned, I am willing to allow a lot of slack. The eastern church was generally much more tolerant of jews than in the west, and it may be that they are not prosecuted at all locally at this time if this suits the player. Or maybe pogroms are the weekly enterteinment. I'll go with whatever works for the player and character.

Depends on your penchant for historical accuracy. The Eastern Church tolerant of Judaism? Pogroms started in Poland and Russia! As said- its your game so the level of historical accuracy is your call- after all this IS MYTHIC Europe!

As far as wizardry is concerned - again, this can certainly be stretched. It may be that goyim [non-jews] can do whatever they like, and even that a jew may benefit from it if he doesn't request it (like a goy can light fire in Shabat). It is also possible that he is simply non-observant; while it is true jews were pretty observant, there were certainly individual exceptions.

Yeah, but here we are talking about the Jew doing the forbidden action, a different thing altogether. Yep, he isn't going to be sentenced to death by the community (there not being a Sanhedrin, but at the very least he would be excommunicated!) BUT once again this is MYTHIC Europe, nobody says the rules are the same as in reality (actually, the more the rules are varied, the less chance of anything too objectionable, after all, it doesn't resembel reality

I would find depicting jeduaism as diabolism distasteful. Anything beyond that I'm willing to leave to player interpertations and desires. It's a game. If anyone feels a jew character may be a problem, however, now is definitely the right time to say so.

As I said, I have no problem with it, but from the sounds of what Someone was after, it is based purely on the worst of Jewish stereotypes (greedy moneylender), but none of the actuality of the histoical reality of Jews in the period. The point of my post was to try and inject some life into the concept- Jews at the time were heavily persecuted, expelled form their homes at a whim (generally when th elocal lord owed too much to the moneylender, and then used his power to disposses the jews and cancel his debts!), and far from glamorous. If one looks at pictures from the period, the conical hats of Jews are prominent, appearing in public without it was tantamount to challenging the Church!

 

[Someone]

Again, as Yair said, it´s only a game and we´re meant to have a nice time. If anyone has a problem with me playing a jew, please say so and I´ll change the character (it´s only a matter of not choosing the Outsider flaw); if I commit any mistake regarding religious or social customs, they would be caused only because of my ignorance, not any kind of bigotry or prejudice. Also, feel free to correct me on those; personally, I always saw Ars Magica as a way to improve my knowledge (I learned a lot about 11th century Spain while researching for my forme saga) and I expect this to be the same.

Edit: I said nothing of greedy, or playing by the bad stereotype. I was counting on him having a hard time, that was the eason on joining the covenant.

The character would be absolutely mundane (it´s the companion) so there´s no need to worry about him wielding or using magic.

 

[Ghostknight]

Note to myself: Do not come to Enworld straight after arguing with the moronic anti-semites in the newgroups!

Heh, no worries. Unfortunately I hang out on some places on the net that one tends to assume the worst (a bad habit to bring to here!)

 

[Strahd_Von_Zarovich]

In the past two days i see only 3 players
me, someone and ghostknight ....
when do we start?

About my character:
Yair - if i need to choose my heart beast, it will be a crow
about religion – I'm a pagan, I'm worshiping the 4 elements.
.
The church hanged my father Gregory because he raped children
And my mother Inna is very sick (cancer – give her at least a year for crying out loud)
My sister Anna is taking care of her, she is a candle maker and married to a tailor.

The characters name is Victor Panovich
Brown-nut hair, blue eyes, Short (1.5 meter) , Slim (52 Kg)
Simple winter cloth, and whatever you wanna give him.

By the way people – my name is Roy

 

[Yair]

In the past two days i see only 3 players
me, someone and ghostknight ....
when do we start?

I'm hoping Blue-Genie and Maerdwyn will pitch in soon. We will start once we'll hammer out the characters and get an idea, at least, of our covenant. I don't want to set a firm data... yet.

About my character:
Yair - if i need to choose my heart beast, it will be a crow
about religion – I'm a pagan, I'm worshiping the 4 elements.

The pagans around this part have a complicated religion, a far cry from worshiping the "4 elements". Out of both respect for this complexity and possible campaign uses of it, I'll be keeping at least a smidgon of it. The following is a very brief summary from The Dragon and the Bear on the local pagan religion:

Religion and Magic
The Slavs were Sun and Earth worshippers. They had many gods, most of whom shared attributes of Fire, Sun, and Fertility. Not all tribes chose to worship the same gods, but at the root of the Slavic religion was the simple notion that the world passed through an annual cycle of birth, growth, decay,
death, and then rebirth. This cycle was easily seen in the waxing and waning of the sun’s power and the turn of the seasons. Accordingly the Slavs marked
the solstices and equinoxes with elaborate rituals. They especially celebrated the turn of midwinter (when the Sun was reborn), the coming of spring (the return of fertility) and the harvest season.
Furthermore, they believed that the universe was organized around a mighty World Tree, an Oak, which pierced the three levels of existence: Heaven, Earth, and Hell.
What follows is a list of the major deities of the Slavs, with a few notes on their important attributes. For more detail see Appendix II, which begins on page 177.
Major Slavic Gods...
Svarog: King of the gods; a sun god of cosmic light, sun, and fire
Mati-Syra-Zemlya: Mother Moist Earth; nature and the world
Perun: God of thunder, lightning, and war
Svarozhich: A god of fire; one of Svarog’s sons
Dazhdbog: A sun god; junior to Svarog; god of creative light, sun, and fire
Khors: The physical, astronomical sun
Stribog: God of wind and air
Iarilo: An aspect of Dazhbog, a fertility god; particularly influential in springtime
Volos: God of poetry, oracles, money, commerce, and cattle; many attributes
Mokosh: Goddess of liberation and redemption; one of the few female divinities
...and Others
The Slavs worshipped three other sorts of beings.
• Ancestors: The dead watched over the clan’s fortunes, encouraged their
descendants, and were often “feasted” by the sacrificial burning of food.
• Natural Objects: Particular rocks, trees, ponds, rivers, and lakes, all of
whom possessed spirits (that is, faeries), many of them benevolent. There were spirits in the home and wilder, more mysterious spirits in the wilds.
• Animals: Deer and horses were popular totems, but any creature could
serve as a spiritual protector.

The Volkhvy
The priests of the ancient Slavs were called Volkhv (plural: Volkhvy). They performed ritual sacrifices, gave prophecies, and practiced surgery. They were also gifted sorcerers. They could shapechange, travel vast distances in an instant, and hide themselves in conjured mists. Any tribal council of elders
was composed mostly of Volkhvy.

Magic of the Living World
To the Slavs the world and the objects within it were alive, and sacred.
To the Slavs there was nothing, literally nothing, that didn’t partake in some measure of divinity: every tool, every ear of rye or barley, every animal, every drop of rain. And any activity could be assisted by knowledge of the
proper incantations. A craftsman, it was thought, did not of himself perform his work. Instead, from his tools, he evoked their fundamental magic and encouraged them to do the work themselves.

So if you're a pagan, this is the deal.

The church hanged my father Gregory because he raped children

ok...

And my mother Inna is very sick (cancer – give her at least a year for crying out loud)
My sister Anna is taking care of her, she is a candle maker and married to a tailor.

I doubt the medical practitioners of that day were aware of cancer, but OK.

 

[Someone]

By the "medieval paradigm" presented in the rulebooks, cancer may not even exists (at least as we know)

 

[Yair]

Roy's Character

Roy, here is your character. Well, one version of it. Look it over, decide if it sounds right and if that's what you want. If you want me to change anything - let me know. If there is anything in the character sheet you don't understand (like why Black Sheep, or whatnot) - ask me.