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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JamesonCourage" data-source="post: 5754575" data-attributes="member: 6668292">No, their wants don't matter. Not their opinions. Not their arguments. Their wants. He's indicated that players can indeed voice their opinion.That's extrapolating his statement to something Pilgrim never said.No, not that he doesn't care. His statement did not indicate whether or not he accepted reasonable objections to his decisions. He indicated that player wants didn't matter.No, that's not true. If you don't make a decision based on player wants, you can still make a decision based on the reasonableness of their arguments.Again, this is different from "I will not consider the player's input... ever."You seem to be interpreting it particularly harshly. I'm not. Either one of us could be off.Compromise is important. However, you can definitely come to decisions for the game you run not based on player wants. If a player says, "here's why it'd be particularly bad to implement those rules right now," they are advocating for what they want, yes, but that doesn't mean I have to base my decision based on that want. I can base my decision on the merit of their argument instead.This lines up with what Pilgrim said.1) No, he's not saying that. He might mean it, but he hasn't said that.2) He said that the players have the right to walk away. Just as you've described. Your anecdotes support his claim.Then changing the game lines up with your want as GM. This also does not contradict Pilgrim's statement.I didn't say it to manipulate them. I said it to let them know I had no more interest in running 3.5 as it stood. I was completely okay with playing for a change <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Whereas my game is a complete success to my group. One player (the next most likely to run a game) wants to run it over any other system, two players felt extremely restricted with their previous games (due to my play style and the flexibility of the system), and the White Wolf player thinks it makes d20 tolerable.Sometimes, it turns out well.It's much closer to 3.5. It's SRD-based, so that's a good start for your group, I think. However, it's a lot grittier at higher levels, so maybe you wouldn't. I'm not sure your view on that.I'm okay with that. Agreeing to disagree <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Also, sorry if it's seeming like I'm squeezing the last word in... I'm replying to this as I read it, and now that I've typed all of it up, it seems like such a waste...If nothing else, we could be food buddies. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I'm guessing that it's laid out in Pilgrim's games, if you sit as his table, you follow his rules. Just a guess, but I don't see that as an unreasonable possibility.It would be my decision, so I don't accept your statement as universally true.That's if the group made that decision. They certainly agreed to it, but it's likely (certain in my group) that its the GM's decision. And, as I said earlier, Pilgrim probably makes it clear that at his table, his rules go. I'm guessing you agree to that when you sit down.I'm not saying that it's the case for all groups, though. I'm saying that the majority of groups invest the GM with the power to say "My Way or The Highway", and that most GMs utilize that power. Pilgrim saying such is not odd, in my mind. His statement did not indication whether or not he allows things based on player reasonableness.Again, not trying to convince you to play a way you don't want to. I do, however, think most GMs use "My Way or The Highway", however, and I think that it's perfectly acceptable as a GM to say no to a player, completely discounting their wants. Discounting reasonableness is something else entirely, however. As always, play what you like <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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