Oops, I failed a Breathe check

[Systole]

So I'm caught in a conundrum here. I'm playing in a game with a couple friends and some of their family members, with another friend GMing. Here's the background.

[sblock=Long version]The GM is just .... not a good GM. In fact, he's sort of the opposite of a good GM. Every single combat is a brutal meatgrinder where one or more characters are reduced to single digit HP or drop. Part of the reason is that combat almost universally takes place in tight, twisty corridors, so our ranged guys can't get a shot off. A lot of this is that the characters are woefully -- woefully -- undergeared, because we haven't been able to resupply in about the past four levels. (My 7th level character is wearing the suit of studded leather she started with at first level, for example.) Also, we're constantly put up against overwhelming battles. Trash fights are usually CR+1. Boss fights are like CR+3 or 4. I think he even put us against a CR+5 once. After we'd had to fight a couple of CR+1's. I have no idea how we survived.

Now, I'm not against meatgrinders, necessarily. But this is a friends-and-family game, and about half the group wouldn't know an optimized character if it crit them on a 15. We're only alive because the a couple of characters rolled ridiculous stats, and the healer is very, very good. Even so, the healer's player is starting to suffer from PTSD. I'm not kidding. Most of us are just waiting for the inevitable TPK. Some of us are actually beginning to hope for it, because it will make the pain stop.

However, the worst offender here is that that in this game, every roll of 1 is a critical failure. The archer shoots the healer in the back of the head. The tank decides to see if his battleaxe can fit in his mouth. My character who has a Climb of +15 or 20 ... falls off a ladder and breaks an arm. After the last game, the healer said, "I'm just waiting until someone rolls a 1 on a Breathe check and dies."[/sblock]

[sblock=Short version]Every roll of 1 is a critical failure. My character who has a Climb of +15 or 20 ... falls off a ladder and breaks an arm. After the last game, the healer said, "I'm just waiting until someone rolls a 1 on a Breathe check and dies." Above and beyond a lot of other problems, this one in particular means rolling an attack or a skill check is accompanied by constant fear and dread. Every 1 is a failure, and every failure is epic.[/sblock]

I've tried gently suggesting to the GM that he's doing it wrong. I've even run him through a couple dungeons of my own where the atmosphere is not one of constant dread and foreboding on every die roll, where a 1 doesn't result in an unfortunate decapitation. Given that he's a friend, what the hell else can I do? My best guess is start talking about how great Kingmaker sounds, so that everyone wants to play that after the inevitable TPK. (Including the current GM, so he'll be inclined to let someone take over for him.) Thoughts, suggestions?

 

[scruffygrognard]

Life is too short for crappy games. The group should tell him to hand over the reins... or die!

 

[Dausuul]

Keep in mind, there are plenty of folks for whom a brutal, punishing, meatgrindery game, with hardly any chance to re-supply and natural 1s being comically sadistic, is exactly what they're looking for. The problem here is, your DM is running a game for those people but you guys are the ones playing.

So, don't tell the DM he's doing it wrong. He isn't; he's just doing it for the wrong group. Instead, tell him what he's running isn't how you like to play, and ask if he'd be willing to nix his "natural 1s" rule and ease off on the threat level so you can breathe... without worrying about getting a 1.

 

[the Jester]

Talk to the gm about it. A couple of times. Then offer to take over. Then drop out of his game and run one of your own, politely inviting him to join.

EDIT: And if/when he asks why, explain it to him again, pointing out that you told him several times about your concerns and that, clearly, your playstyle and his dming style don't mix well. So you're better off playing a game you'll enjoy.

PLEASE don't make the mistake of feeling "obligated" to play in a crappy game.

 

[billd91]

If the rest of the players feel the same way, it's time to say, "Man, we just aren't feeling the love of this particular campaign and style of play. Let's do something else."

 

[Pilgrim]

Every roll of 1 is a critical failure.

I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

Rolling a nat 20 for crit and nat 1 for failure has been around since, well, forever. The odds of rolling a 1 on the d20 represent that miniscule chance that your character encounters a worst case scenario, regardless of how great they are at something. It happens in the real world, it happens in the game.

Matter of fact my group has used and still does use that setup in all our D&D games, through every edition we have played.

And it far from qualifies the GM as a bad GM or the game as a bad game, sounds more like a personal issue.

 

[Dausuul]

I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

Rolling a nat 20 for crit and nat 1 for failure has been around since, well, forever. The odds of rolling a 1 on the d20 represent that miniscule chance that your character encounters a worst case scenario, regardless of how great they are at something. It happens in the real world, it happens in the game.

Matter of fact my group has used and still does use that setup in all our D&D games, through every edition we have played.

And it far from qualifies the GM as a bad GM or the game as a bad game, sounds more like a personal issue.

I think the issue is that a natural 1 is not just a failure but a critical failure--a disastrous, life-threatening, abysmal botch. See the examples given, of PCs routinely hitting themselves and each other. Hence the comment that somebody's going to get a natural 1 on a Breathe check and die.

Critical fumbles on a natural 1 make for an absolutely ridiculous rate of cataclysmic failure, far beyond what happens in real life. Imagine if you had to make a Drive check every time you went to work, with an accident on a natural 1. You would crash your car every two weeks! And that's assuming you only drive to work and back, Monday through Friday--no trips to the grocery store, to visit friends, you walk to lunch or eat in the office, stay at home on weekends.

Then try to imagine, say, the Cold War playing out under such a regime. We'd have had nuclear apocalypse ten times over before we ever got out of the fifties.

 

[Therise]

Talking to the GM about it quietly is one thing, but when people get into their "personal groove" of what they love best (and it sounds like he LOVES meatgrindy adventuring), you have to sit them down and point out consequences. As in: we hate this style, and we will all stop playing if you don't lighten up.

Otherwise, if you don't point out consequences, he will do what HE likes to maximize HIS fun as a GM. It's a classic new GM problem, where the new GM caters to his own tastes rather than developing the adventure to suit the players at the table. It's probably not even crossed his mind, or really sunk in.

 

[Rechan]

I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

You're not seeing the problem because you enjoy that style of play.

The problem is that the OP (and possibly his group) does not enjoy it and doesn't want to play in that style of game, but that style of game is being ran by a friend so he's not sure how to address the issue.

 

[Systole]

I guess I'm not seeing the problem.

Rolling a nat 20 for crit and nat 1 for failure has been around since, well, forever. The odds of rolling a 1 on the d20 represent that miniscule chance that your character encounters a worst case scenario, regardless of how great they are at something. It happens in the real world, it happens in the game.

Matter of fact my group has used and still does use that setup in all our D&D games, through every edition we have played.

And it far from qualifies the GM as a bad GM or the game as a bad game, sounds more like a personal issue.

In PF, a crit has to be confirmed. And the benefits of a crit are extra damage. In his game, a 1 does not have to be confirmed, and the epic failure of a fumble far outweighs the benefits of extra damage from a crit. Like, go prone in front of the boss. Lose weapon. Hit the healer. Push the mage in front of the boss while trying to open a door. (That last one actually happened.) I would happily give up my crits if it meant I never fumbled. There's no balance here.

In the game I ran with him, I kept fumbles but ruled that they had to be confirmed (i.e. by missing on a second roll) in hopes that maybe he'd pick that up. I also tried putting in lesser penalties (shaken for a round). No luck. Failures are epic, and constant.

As far as why I don't walk away: The GM is a friend. He's not a bad guy. And the game he runs is one of the few times I get to see some other friends who are busy a lot of the time.

I really don't think the GM realizes he's running a meatgrinder campaign. When he started, he assured us it would be a casual, friends and family deal, and he stated outright he wanted fun characters rather than min-maxed ones. Cut to several levels later, and I'm currently trying to turn my lovable-but-goofy rogue into a hardened warrior against the unspeakable grimdark minions of an undead god.

Yeah.