OotS 406

[Andor]

It was obviously a willing act. She meant to strike him down.

I would argue that though she did the act willingly, it is not necessarily an evil act and I would therefore not as a DM, remove her paladin powers.

Whether the act of 'striking down someone she (unreasonably) believes is a hidden evil who betrayed a sacred trust to protect the safety of the entire world and therefore she believes is a current ongoing threat to the safety of the world' is evil.

I would not.

Yeah but that's not what anything points too. The oath has nothing to do with protecting the world, it has to do with protecting the egos of a bunch of dead adventurers and actively interferes with protecting the world (and the GODS) from the Snarl. That's all that Shojo has been working around. That and a city full of lunatics who will try to assasinate him over meatloaf....

Furthermore whether the act was evil has nothing to do with Miko's beliefs, it has to do with Shojo's actions. If he had been acting as Miko though he was acting then her attack would not have been an evil action (although it still would have been a chaotic one.) D&D morality is not relative, it's absolute.

 

[Harlath]

Not necessarily deliberate, but shades of Nixon's "In all the decisions I have made in my public life, I have always tried to do what was best for the nation. I have never been a crook" in the ruler's last words?

 

[kigmatzomat]

Miko's big mistake is in being certain, without any real evidence, than OotS & Shojo are in cahoots with Xykon. Since she takes that to be an incontravertible fact she can rationally conclude that the non-Evil Shojo & OotS are willingly consorting with Evil.

The Linear Guild, currently in Azure City prison, were the ones working with Xykon. Sure, she has 3rd-party descriptions of the LiG that also match OotS but she has never brought any of the OotS before their so-called accusers to confirm this, even when the OotS was in chains.

So she has performed an evil act by killing the basically innocent (if perhaps manipulative) Shojo based on faulty reasoning that, had she not been so impulsive (not a good quality for Lawful), would have been resolved by a rather brief hearing with the magistrates and the "political prisoners."

Miko should lose her paladin powers but not fall (think "being grounded" rather than "being banished"). She would be able to atone to her god if she is willing and accepts that she in fact did something wrong. If she refuses to believe she was wrong in her actions then she would become an ex-paladin and be ripe for the vengeful path of the blackguard.

 

[drothgery]

Miko = Mace Windu.

...

Now, the big differences are a) Palpatine is actually conspiring with the Separatists and is faking being helpless, whereas Shojo isn't guilty (presumably), b) Anakin stops Mace, whereas Hinjo doesn't (again, presumably - we don't *know* Shojo is dead), and c) Roy and Belkar are present as observers. However, R&B appear to be, for purposes of this scene, purely observers, completely removed from the action.

Also, being a world where D&D mechanics apply, death from reasons other than old age and certain spells is pretty easily reversible, and in fact someone capable of performing that task is on their way (and that person is one of at least two in the city who can, as Durkon is also).

 

[the Jester]

...speechless.

 

[Voadam]

Yeah but that's not what anything points too. The oath has nothing to do with protecting the world, it has to do with protecting the egos of a bunch of dead adventurers and actively interferes with protecting the world (and the GODS) from the Snarl. That's all that Shojo has been working around. That and a city full of lunatics who will try to assasinate him over meatloaf....

Furthermore whether the act was evil has nothing to do with Miko's beliefs, it has to do with Shojo's actions. If he had been acting as Miko though he was acting then her attack would not have been an evil action (although it still would have been a chaotic one.) D&D morality is not relative, it's absolute.

I'm not talking about the oath of not going to the other gates.

Aren't the paladins there to guard the gate to prevent the Snarl from getting out and destroying the world? Isn't that a "a sacred trust to protect the safety of the entire world"?

 

[Mycanid]

Yeesh.

 

[orsal]

I think the old guy was evil.

I mean, come on, "Convenient Morality"? This is typical villain-speak.

That's Chaotic, but not necessarily Evil. No interest in ethics -- clearly not Lawful. He considers that the end justifies the means, so as long as the ends are good, he can be Good.

He circumvented justice for his own expedience,

He circumvented justice for his own objectives, which are good objectives.

he betrayed those who put trust in him, and he abused his power. Miko is serving as an agent of true divine retribution here -- he's guilty as sin for what he's done.

The legal concept of guilt is not the same as the moral concept of evil. I place him well in the CG corner of the chart.

 

[Voadam]

I apologise for turning this into a paladin morality thread.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I would dearly like to see Miko fall. She has clearly ignored the laws of her own land, but not taking Shojo to trial, which is unforgiveable even if Shojo were evil.

But I doubt she will actually fall -- Shojo failed to be a legitimate authority as soon as he admitted to bypassing the laws, which undermines them, and puts Mikos act into a questionable grey area.

Rich's ability to combine good storytelling, humor (Shojo's comments about Miko are priceless), and commentary on D&D rules (look at the massive paladin discussion) are really impressive. Looking forward to the next series of strips!