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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 3501621" data-attributes="member: 78">Amazingly, spells have finite durations.  Xykon could have entered the throne room from basically before the first arrow was fired up to after battle ends (presumeably hours later). So when do you cast your short duration buffs like prayer to avoid wasting them?  Xykon turning Tsukiko helps confuse matters, since if they hear the sounds of battle progressing through the keep, they may make incorrect assumptions about the time of Xykon's arrival.Moreover, DC 23 for the Symbol is very much a low ball estimate - it assumes a ~14 starting stat, most of his level up points, his lich bonus to CHA, and no spell focus feats (reasonable given what we know).  Without any unusual stuff (instead, merely very expensive stuff), Xykon could have 18 base CHA, +5 level, +5 book (haha, it's treasure the PCs can't get!), +2 race, and a +6 item, the DC is 31.  Even with a buffed +10 save, the pallies are still screwed.  Granted, the actuality is problably less extreme - Xykon lost a bunch of stuff in his first defeat so any Cloak of Charisma he possessed is probably toast.Someone on RPGnet also mentioned that the movement of the ball may cause it to leave and re-enter the area of the paladins, thereby forcing a save each time the ball comes within 60 ft - possibly many times as it ricochets about the room.  I'm not sure that a bouncy ball would have that much bounce to it though - it seems like it'd get 1 pass through the room at most before running of steam.</blockquote>

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