oozes, acid and magic items...help needed

[Dark Dragon]

Hi,

recently I worked out an encounter for ToE involving a black pudding and I stumbled over some problems...

First: Why are the oozes from MM not immune to acid although they deal acid damage? Or did I miss the erratum?

Second: A pudding's acidic touch deals 50 points of damage to wooden and metallic objects (or 20 to obejects made of stone). "Any melee hit deals acid damage." (MM) So, consider a fighter level 12 in plate mail +3 with a longsword +3 being attacked by a black pudding. The pudding hits and deals damage, this is 2d6+4 (slam) and 2d6 (acid) (stat block MM, page 145). If I interprete this correctly, the fighter receives 4d6+4 points of damage and loses his armor unless the armor succeeds in a Ref save DC 19 (which is quite difficult for an object)? Should the fighter strike back, he has a good chance to destroy his sword...And when the pudding succeeds in constricting the fighter, his complete equipment will certainly be destroyed (Ref save DC rises to 23...)

Third: What happens if the Reflex save is successful? Half damage? Full damage but not dissolved (50 points are in most cases enough to destroy an object)? No damage?

Fourth: CR 7 seems to be quite low for a monster immune to weapon damage, lots of hp, and a non-magical melee version of Mordenkainen's Disjunction...

Any ideas?

 

[Aaron2]

I can't help because I'm having a similar problem with a Grey Oozes acid attack. Exactly how is this thing supposed to work?


Aaron

 

[gfunk]

I just pitted my PCs against a Black Pudding last night as a matter of fact . . .

First: Why are the oozes from MM not immune to acid although they deal acid damage? Or did I miss the erratum?

Not a typo as far as I can tell. Also this is not necessarily illogical -- in the movie Aliens all of the bugs had acid for blood but they could still be injured by their own acid.

Second: A pudding's acidic touch deals 50 points of damage to wooden and metallic objects (or 20 to obejects made of stone). "Any melee hit deals acid damage." (MM) So, consider a fighter level 12 in plate mail +3 with a longsword +3 being attacked by a black pudding. The pudding hits and deals damage, this is 2d6+4 (slam) and 2d6 (acid) (stat block MM, page 145). If I interprete this correctly, the fighter receives 4d6+4 points of damage and loses his armor unless the armor succeeds in a Ref save DC 19 (which is quite difficult for an object)? Should the fighter strike back, he has a good chance to destroy his sword...And when the pudding succeeds in constricting the fighter, his complete equipment will certainly be destroyed (Ref save DC rises to 23...)

The pudding's acid touch, IMO, refers to it being able to dissolve things such as doors and iron bars and such. It requires a round (6 seconds) of continuous exposure.

"Any melee hit deals acid damage" refers to the +2d6 acid damage added to its slam damage.

You are correct on the damage the fighter is dealt, however his armor and clothes are safe unless the Black Pudding grapples him. Keep in mind that the Pudding may do this for free by virtue of its Improved Grab ability. If the Pudding gets a successful hold on the fighter, then the fighter must make a DC 23 Reflex save (DC 19 base and +4 penalty) or his armor/clothing goes bye bye.

The fighter can strike back and risk losing his sword (Reflex 19 negates).

Note that, if grappled, only his armor/clothing is gone not all his equipment.

Third: What happens if the Reflex save is successful? Half damage? Full damage but not dissolved (50 points are in most cases enough to destroy an object)? No damage?

No damage.

The 50 points only applies if the Pudding is actively against a large wooden or metallic object (e.g. door/trunk/iron bars) trying to dissolve its way through.

Fourth: CR 7 seems to be quite low for a monster immune to weapon damage, lots of hp, and a non-magical melee version of Mordenkainen's Disjunction...

A Black Pudding is to Fighters as Flesh Golems are to Wizards.

A Sor/Wiz (Level 6 or 7) can easily stay out of range of a Pudding and pelt it with damaging spells. It's Dexterity of 1 ain't gonna make those Reflex Saves easy.

However, if you have a party of all fighting types, then you are in for it.

 

[Aaron2]

I still don't get the "armor or clothing dissolves and becomes useless immediately" thing. Does this only affect armor? What about backpacks or belts or shoes? Is this a save-or-be-naked thing?


Aaron

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Just armor. And the oddity of the acid destroying armor while leaving your belt intact is simply one of those D&D paradoxes. After all, a bebelith can tear off your full plate, while leaving your Robe of Blending without a thread out of place.

If the Pudding gets its pseudopods wrapped around you, it dissolves your armor and clothing, but your other stuff is fine.

 

[Dark Dragon]

Thanks for the input. I hope that my party will finish off the pudding before it reaches melee combat distance...Unfortunately, they have never encountered oozes so far.

Hmm, we will see

 

[Grazzt]

Re: Re: oozes, acid and magic items...help needed

You are correct on the damage the fighter is dealt, however his armor and clothes are safe unless the Black Pudding grapples him. Keep in mind that the Pudding may do this for free by virtue of its Improved Grab ability. If the Pudding gets a successful hold on the fighter, then the fighter must make a DC 23 Reflex save (DC 19 base and +4 penalty) or his armor/clothing goes bye bye.

This is incorrect, AFAIK. Why would the ooze only be able to dissolve armor and clothing when grappling and not when using a Slam attack? The text supports this by stating the following:

"Armor or clothing dissolve immediately unless it succeeds at a Reflex save (DC 19)." This means, I do believe, that if it hits with its Slam attack ("any melee hit deals acid damage") that armor or clothes must save or dissolve.

If it grapples and constricts you must save as well, but with a -4 penalty.

Basically, if the designers only wanted it to affect armor or clothes when grappled, I dont think they would've listed the Ref DC save in the Acid section. I mean, why not just list it under Constrict if that is the only way armor or clothes can be affected?