Opinion: PoL and high tiers do not fit in the long run

[xechnao]

But nobody can deny that D&D is the most famous of them all.

You know D&D became so famous as an adventure roleplaying game rather than a fantasy skirmish wargame. AD&D provided simulationist rules for adventuring and fantasy setting. Runequest, its major rival at the time did the same.

 

[DandD]

Adventure roleplaying hack&slay is just another variaton of fantasy skirmishing. And AD&D was horrible. A rules-bloated monstrosity that tried to conform to all, and failed to achieve it. 3rd edition D&D seemed to go the right way in the beginning, before it was clustered with tons of unnecessary rules. It's highly probable that 4th edition will also end like this, which is then a new sign for a new edition to come, hopefully in 7-9 years or so.

 

[Derren]

Imo PoL is more like a concept than a true setting.

Compare it to a old style movie series, best one about cowboys (I don't know if such a series really existed. The Anime Trigun is a bit like it).
In this series the heroes enter a small wild west town, hear from the population about the local problems (be it a tyrannical mayor/sheriff, some bandits or trouble with native americans, etc.). The heroes solve the problem and ride into the falling sun only to come into the next small wild west town in the next episode to solve another problem.

This is to me what PoL is meant to be for D&D. lots of small villages which can't defend themselves against whatever bothers them and need the PCs for it. And after the PCs did their job everyone is happy and continue to live their live not bothered by any monster ot other thread which lurks in the darkness unless another adventure is needed.

 

[xechnao]

Adventure roleplaying hack&slay is just another variaton of fantasy skirmishing.

I disagree. It is/was not only about hack&slash. You have skills for various situations, climate, travelling, treasure, worldbuilding and many other things.

3rd edition D&D seemed to go the right way in the beginning, before it was clustered with tons of unnecessary rules. It's highly probable that 4th edition will also end like this, which is then a new sign for a new edition to come, hopefully in 7-9 years or so.

This thread is about how 4e will be handling this -or an aspect of this- right away, in the beginning.

 

[DandD]

I disagree. It is/was not only about hack&slash. You have skills for various situations, climate, travelling, treasure, worldbuilding and many other things.

Skills for world-building? I guess you mean the Gamemaster. And in D&D, traveling isn't that much fun, unless it's spiced up with some random encounter.

This thread is about how 4e will handle this -or an aspect of this- right way in the beginning.

I thought this thread was about the Points of Light-game concept and epic level not being a good idea.

 

[xechnao]

I thought this thread was about the Points of Light-game concept and epic level not being a good idea.

Not being a good idea as not being something solid regarding worldbuilding or "campaigning". I thought you had understood I was talking about this matter allready, hadn't you? Sorry but I do not know how to explain it better to you anymore -we keep repeating the same over and over.

 

[DandD]

How do you define solid, and do you really even believe that what you think is good is also good for the others regarding D&D? All you want is what D&D 3.X already provides.

 

[xechnao]

How do you define solid

In "campaigning" context solid means to have rules or tools that do not defy verisimilitude.

EDIT: these tools since we are talking about campaigns should be fluff and/or cruch.

 

[DandD]

Are we talking about the same game with hitpoints, AC, learn-and-cast-then-forget-spells, classes and levels?

 

[xechnao]

Are we talking about the same game with hitpoints, AC, learn-and-cast-then-forget-spells, classes and levels?

HPs and AC are abstract rules regarding skirmish. The Vancian magic system is no longer in 4e in the form it was in 3e-or at least that's what clues I have-and classes and levels purpose is a way of abstract crunch on fluff -that is to enforce the world or campaign fluff balance.