Opinions about Raise Dead, Resurrection, Reincarnation...

[akbearfoot]

We're currently playing through the 3.5e Age of Wyrms campaign...We have access to all the Do-over spells and our characters are extremely powerful for their levels. We use a varient death rule though where we can go to -half max hitpoints, and we have Healing surges from 4E...We still get our asses kicked and frequently end up in the -tweens. Nobody has actually died yet, but if we weren't using all the changes we'd have had about a dozen deaths sofar...That's not really my idea of fun. Constantly changing characters and having to come up with new reasons to have new faces suddenly join the fight...or better yet, the PC that loves his character concept so comes back with Landfill 2...then 3...then 4.

Not to mention that if you want to get rid of anything that brings characters back to life, then you are pretty much required to get rid of anything that can kill instantly, and changte all the monsters with such abilities. Otherwise you are basically saying 'I want you to keep dying'. Or you end up with the scenario that our old 2e group had...'What an level draining undead? We RUN away...we're in the middle of town? Hrmm, maybe a NPC cleric will show up and turn it...****keeps running***'

'Huh, that Spawn of Kyus can kill u instantly? RUNS like hell.... Wyvern!? they do Con damage! We run away!'

 

[Amazing Mumford]

The spell is cast routinely for those who can afford it, but it rarely works. NPC's WILL treat death as a solemn event no matter how PLAYERS treat it. When PC's treat death and resurrection as "an inconvenience" they WILL be looked upon by NPC's as bizzare, if not nearly insane. When the spell works it will be treated as the freak occurrence it is if not an outright MIRACLE and people who WILLINGLY return from the dead this way WILL ALWAYS be treated differently by NPC's who know about it as a result.
These spells are otherwise present in the game to enable PLAYERS to revive their characters and return them to play with minimal inconvenience. The spells exist to preserve verisimilitude and suspension of disbelief for players who want to keep playing their characters. They do not exist to be an unnecessary pain in the ass for a DM who [stupidly] feels they have to raise every NPC in their game world.

I kinda tend to agree with you there-- the visual of a PC group storming through the doors of a temple mid-service with the mangled, bloody, burned and eviscerated body of their comrade and throwing a heap of treasure on the ground and expecting a raise dead or resurrection is in my opinion quite insane. We had a Power Gamer in our group that viewed death as "inconvienent" and an "annoyance" and tried to justify that these spells were not strange at all... let's just say that our group now is having a bit more fun.

They do not exist to be an unnecessary pain in the ass for a DM who [stupidly] feels they have to raise every NPC in their game world.

I don't need to raise every NPC in the world-- that's what stasis clone is for!!!

Kidding, kidding...

 

[Thanee]

House Rule : Characters of extreme power may sacrifice something great (extremely great) to ressurect someone (perhaps with the cost of his own life or more?).

And of course you can always ressurect someone for the story.

This last part in context of the above somehow sounds horribly wrong to me.

Either it is possible or not. If it is only possible with great sacrifice, then - for the story - a great sacrifice must be made as well.

It's definitly (in my opinion, anyways) not ok, to do something, that is not possible, just for the story. A story like that is invalid.

I suppose you didn't mean it that way, though.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dragonnety]

Hehe, the second doesn't exclude the other.
Example : My party was totally wiped out by a black dragon. Not in a fight but beacuse I wanted a sidequest in hell (it was crucial for the campaign). They traveled in hell for a while to find themselves ressurected by a wizard they knew. The wizard was a major NPC and one of thegreatest wizards in my world. After the ressurection of the party he lost his connection with the weave (yeah I use the weave) for ever.

Also

I have ressurected an NPC and now the PC's try to find out how this happened. There is an explanation of course, it didn't just happened.

 

[Thanee]

They traveled in hell for a while to find themselves ressurected by a wizard they knew. The wizard was a major NPC and one of the greatest wizards in my world. After the ressurection of the party he lost his connection with the weave (yeah I use the weave) for ever.

I hope he had a really (-R-E-A-L-L-Y-) good reason for that... If I were the wizard, I would have left them dead for sure.

Ok, I certainly do not have the full picture, but that sounds more like a metagame decision to me (party should be able to continue and it should be reinforced how expensive such a resurrection is), not one that makes sense in the game world (why would someone with so much power sacrifice it just to get some fools that died back to live instead of finding new fools, of which there are thousands?).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Dragonnety]

I think exactly like you, and believe me, if they were just another party of adventurers they would still try to find their way to Dis.

But, beacuse I like deep-story senarios the wizard was compeled to do so. I can't tell the whole story because the campaign lasted for 3 years. But i can tell you that the wizard didn't needed them to do his "dirty" work.

 

[zendruid]

Totally agree with you there-- not too long ago we had a PC who died withing the first 15-20 minutes of the session! That bites for the player...

I wonder who that was? Something makes me think it was a sentient ape or was it a jermlain psychic warrior. The pain still haunts me.

 

[zendruid]

On whether a deity will grant the spell: DM's call. On whether the character would pray for it: player's call. Whether an NPC would pray for it: DM's call. Whether a character would accept it: player's call (personally if my character wouldn't want to be returned to life he won't accept or ask for the resurrection). Alignment and deity restrictions: DM's call (If the DM doesn't think the deity would allow their priest to cast it because the deity knows the soul of the deceased is evil I don't have any problem with that). I think story continuity is important but sometimes characters die even in stories, especially dramatic stories. Yes it sucks when you die and having a back-up character is very nice, especially one that is already in play, but if you roll a one you roll a one. This is the consequence of playing a game based on chance. Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. Revivify is an awesome spell, I'd give up all the other resurrection spells for a version of that spell with an extended usability. Caster level determines how long after TOD the character can be revived. Perhaps 1rnd per caster level cap at 5. Yes sometimes you'll be too late with your defibrillator but it's better than none at all. It may be possible to have a greater revivify that can function minutes or hours after TOD (Miracle Max from Princess Bride style, slipped him a potion of greater revivify in pill form). I believe wish and limited wish should still be able to bring the dead back to life, along with miracle, the cost of the spell justifies it. How often are you gonna see someone pay the price for that. On reincarnation, I'd give this not only to druids but clerics of nature/rebirth deities, it is not unnatural to return to the cycle of life. Certain races have general outlooks reflected in their deities, but individuals are given freewill and can choose what they want to do based on their desires. If the deities of that world view choose to answer the prayers of any given supplicant that is the will of said deity. Now if you are the DM you decide I as a player will deal with the consequences of playing in your sandbox.

 

[MichaelK]

I treat these spells the same way I do fireball or magic-missile. They exist in the world and are available for PCs and NPCs to have on their spell lists. As such the world has adapted to the possibility of resurrections.

Barghests are widely sought after for their ability to destroy souls.

The Thieves' Guild have the Mortuarium, a secret dungeon where they put the bodies of their slain foes, animated as mindless zombies and shielded against scrying. (You can't resurrect the undead).

Trap the Soul, Mirror of Life Trapping and Imprisonment are good ways of dealing with someone permanently without killing them.

But ultimately these are the sort of thing out of the reach of the common man. You have to be a high level character before resurrection and the ability to oppose it become available to you.

 

[Dzyu]

Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but I would like to add a perspective about aquiring the materials none of you guys seem to have mentioned.

My point is: Diamonds. 5000 gp for a raise dead, 25000 gp for a true ressurection. If I want to limit the availability of ressurection in my campaign I limit the access to these components.