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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Opportunity Attacks - no limit ?
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<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 5466720" data-attributes="member: 71571"><p>So, Polearm Gamble does not override Opportunity Attack, despite the fact that it MENTIONS IT BY NAME, and says you can do things with it you're normally allowed to do?</p><p></p><p>It's not excepting forced movement, or teleportation and such because it doesn't contradict the rules on opportunity actions, nor does it mention them as things it excepts.</p><p></p><p>But it doesn't except opportunity attack!?! Come off it. Let's see what PG says about that:</p><p></p><p>'When a nonadjacent enemy enters a square adjacent to you, you can make an <em>opportunity attack</em> with a polearm against that enemy.'</p><p></p><p>Hmmmm.... seems to me like it's directly mentioning opportunity attack and saying you can use it, thus the part of opportunity attack that says you can't... the range... is <strong>explicitly</strong> excepted by this power. Verbatim. </p><p></p><p>You cannot make the case that Polearm Gamble is not changing how opportunity attack works; it's bloody well written into Polearm Gamble that it does. The ONLY thing Polearm Gamble does not except is what <strong>melee basic attack</strong> allows you to do. In the case of polearms, they all tend to have reach, so that question is moot.</p><p></p><p>Opportunity Attack cannot be a weapon power because melee basic attack is not a weapon power for all classes <strong>or monsters</strong>.* Ergo, it cannot have any reach other than 'Melee 1.' It cannot be ranged because it will trigger OAs. It cannot be 'Melee touch' because that would effectively give threatening reach to things like Stoneblessed, which have extended natural reach. Clearly, THAT is not intended either.</p><p></p><p>However, by having a feature, feat, or otherwise stating that you can make an opportunity attack against something that is outside that melee 1 range, by explicitly mentioning the impossible range conditions, creates the contradiction that permits it to ignore that melee 1 for the purposes of making opportunity attacks. </p><p></p><p>This is not at all analogous to how shifting ignores opportunity attacks, as that is a case of shifting being more specific than the opportunity attack granted by polearm gamble. Polearm Gamble does not create an exception against shift (Notice, it does not mention shift) but shift DOES except Polearm Gamble (shift does explicitly mention the opportunity action, which Polearm grants)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 9px">That last bit is very important. The designs for Opportunity Attack mentioned here completely ignore the fact that monsters need to access them. You need to account for monsters in it, they're the ones that Threatening Reach apply to.</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 5466720, member: 71571"] So, Polearm Gamble does not override Opportunity Attack, despite the fact that it MENTIONS IT BY NAME, and says you can do things with it you're normally allowed to do? It's not excepting forced movement, or teleportation and such because it doesn't contradict the rules on opportunity actions, nor does it mention them as things it excepts. But it doesn't except opportunity attack!?! Come off it. Let's see what PG says about that: 'When a nonadjacent enemy enters a square adjacent to you, you can make an [I]opportunity attack[/I] with a polearm against that enemy.' Hmmmm.... seems to me like it's directly mentioning opportunity attack and saying you can use it, thus the part of opportunity attack that says you can't... the range... is [b]explicitly[/b] excepted by this power. Verbatim. You cannot make the case that Polearm Gamble is not changing how opportunity attack works; it's bloody well written into Polearm Gamble that it does. The ONLY thing Polearm Gamble does not except is what [b]melee basic attack[/b] allows you to do. In the case of polearms, they all tend to have reach, so that question is moot. Opportunity Attack cannot be a weapon power because melee basic attack is not a weapon power for all classes [b]or monsters[/b].* Ergo, it cannot have any reach other than 'Melee 1.' It cannot be ranged because it will trigger OAs. It cannot be 'Melee touch' because that would effectively give threatening reach to things like Stoneblessed, which have extended natural reach. Clearly, THAT is not intended either. However, by having a feature, feat, or otherwise stating that you can make an opportunity attack against something that is outside that melee 1 range, by explicitly mentioning the impossible range conditions, creates the contradiction that permits it to ignore that melee 1 for the purposes of making opportunity attacks. This is not at all analogous to how shifting ignores opportunity attacks, as that is a case of shifting being more specific than the opportunity attack granted by polearm gamble. Polearm Gamble does not create an exception against shift (Notice, it does not mention shift) but shift DOES except Polearm Gamble (shift does explicitly mention the opportunity action, which Polearm grants) [size=1]That last bit is very important. The designs for Opportunity Attack mentioned here completely ignore the fact that monsters need to access them. You need to account for monsters in it, they're the ones that Threatening Reach apply to.[/size] [/QUOTE]
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