Optimising throwing daggers

[preacher]

My DM has allowed me to use Dart stats for throwing daggers, and my Daggerspell Mage character has left his bow at home to concentrate on flinging daggers at everyone.

I decided to do this for flavour rather than because I expected massive damage, and with no ranged weapon feats, I wasn't exactly tearing up the battlefield with my bow. However we use a modified version of the UA Damage Reduction rules, where characters get half their AC as DR (with no loss of AC). As a result my daggers are pinging off everyone and there's not really any point in me throwing them.

If I ever get enough cash in hand, I could buy some magical daggers with the flaming and returning qualities, but that's a lot of cash. Are there any suggestions on how to get more out of throwing daggers without burning a lot of feats? I cast Flame Arrow on our ranger's quiver and she loves it, but with daggers I'd need to cast a spell on each one I throw.

I do have paired +3 daggers given as a special gift, but don't really want to lose them. Is there a spell or item anywhere which would temporarily grant them the Returning ability?

I'm looking for any and all ideas to make this work. I'm not expecting massive damage, just something to make ranged combat a viable option before I give up and dust off my bow.

 

[Darklone]

Uhhh... a wizard without ranged feats? Tough thing. The typical things to make the usually weak throwing chars better are halfling ftr4 + halfling paragon levels + WS + RWM+ rogue levels for sneak attack or master thrower ranger scout.

Or perhaps a bard ftr with optimised inspire courage.

Best thing I can think of for your mage: Invest in many wands of Flame Arrow and buy Energy-substituted wands with cold, acid, lightning and all the other damage... and get shuriken (esentially small daggers).

 

[Angerland]

I think the house ruled DR is really going to kill the characters chances of doing decent damage with thrown daggers. if your a daggerspell mage taking Point Blank shot will still work with your ray spells, as will precise shot so they wouldn't really be wasted.

What feats do you have now? What level is the character?

 

[preacher]

Thanks. Character is Rog3/Wiz5/DaM2 - about to hit DaM3, which will bump SA up to +3d6. So I'm okay if I can get a SA in, but ranged SA is hard to manage, unless I'm doing something wrong.

Feats are TWF, Weapon Finesse, WF: Dagger, Practised Spellcaster and Craft Wands. Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot would help, but I don't have the feat slots available yet. I plan on learning more Ranged Touch attack spells to synergise with Sneak Attack, so those would be good feats further down the line. I'd take a 1 level dip in Fighter (character background as written would support that), but I'd lose yet another caster level, and I'm already 2 spell levels behind what I'd be as a pure caster.

My plan had been to concentrate on melee SA, but with the current party mix it's not been easy to get flanking positions. At first I was the only rogue and only arcane caster, which is why I went for this build. Now we have a rogue who, although of a lower CL, is already doing more SA damage than me, so I leave the best flanking spots to him. (It also means I wish I'd gone for a pure arcane caster, but that's another story. )

TWF would work reasonably well with thrown daggers, if only I could get past the DR.

Is there a Flame Arrow equivalent for thrown weapons? Or is it possibly to enchant a bandolier or a glove that imparts Flaming to thrown weapons?

Maybe I'll have to try to find some of the lower level ray spells and get a wand made.

 

[Darklone]

Blur helps a lot for ranged attacks to be sneak attacks and is a great protection as well.

Flame Arrow: Shuriken

TWF is nice for throwing... PBS is useful anyhow as Angerland said.

Why don´t you use Imp Invisibility???

 

[preacher]

Ah - shuriken count as ammo, so Flame Arrow will work. I didn't get that before. Thanks both - I'll look into that. Greater Magic Weapon looks good for Shuriken, too. Exotic weapons, though, so it'd take a feat or I'd have a -4 penalty. Hmm. Stuff to think about there.

Imp Invis. is on my list for when I level up and get my 4th level spells. Losing 4 spell-casting levels means I can only cast 3rd levels spells at present.

 

[preacher]

Blur helps a lot for ranged attacks to be sneak attacks

It's late and I'm tired so I've probably missed something obvious. I can see how Blur would negate Sneak Attacks, but how does it help them? I'm assuming there's something about attacking from concealment that I've missed?

 

[Darklone]

Well, IIRC Blur let´s you attack like an invisible person... e.g. enemy does not have his Dex bonus ... e.g. you sneak attack.

 

[preacher]

Hmm, I can't find that anywhere. Invisibility gives total (50% miss) concealment, Blur only gives partial (20% miss) concealment.

On the other hand, Blink lets you Sneak Attack, although with a 20% chance you're out of phase when you swing.

 

[Darklone]

Ouch yeah. I meant Blink