Orc/Hobgoblin PC race: a different take

[Turanil]

After having started this thread, I decided to add an orc or hobgoblin PC race to my homebrew. Now I wanted some advice to help me refine this homebrew orc / hobgoblin:

Concern: I think that hobgoblins and orcs are redundant and fill the same niche (and in C&C moreso than in D&D). I don't see the need for having two such races together in the campaign. Especially when the MM tells that "hobgoblins are often leaders among tribes of orcs". Besides, orcs directly come from Tolkien, for whom "orc" was just another name for goblins in his stories, not two clearly different races.

Hobgoblins/Goblins IMC: In my homebrew, there is a goblinoid empire, where hobgoblins rule and goblins are serfs/slaves. Their society is militaristic and violent, yet fairly organized with infrastructures and so on. So goblinoids are not just primitive tribes of brutish cretins roaming the countryside at random. They have their own lands, with government, citis, etc.

My take on Orcs: Orcs are just hobgoblins, but a psychopath or degenerate breed. The thing is that hobgoblin society is a violent one. Children among goblinoids are commonly raised with abuse and brutality. However, this can only produce people who will become either mindless brutes or broken subservient characters. But worse, it also produce a fair number of enraged psychopaths. These characters, after having been so much abused and violented during their childhood, have become hateful reckless rebels within their own society, of which they reject everything. These mad hobgoblins are totally unable to fit in the goblinoid society, and will either have to flee or be eventually executed. "Orc" is in fact an insulting word, in the goblinoid tongue, to designate such dangerous and mindless hobgoblins psychopaths.

Being so full of rage, and having survived the harshness of their violent upbringing, orcs tend to look different than normal hobgoblins, more brutish and stronger. However, they were born from hobgoblin parents, and are (racially speaking) but hobgoblins. Now, orcs who haven't been executed while still in their native society, have fled beyond the empire, and often form roaming warbands of their own with no purpose but to go on rampage. Orcs lack discipline and rarely care for their safety (being mad), so they rarely get experience and become fearsome warriors, and tend to die quickly (which accounts for most of them being 1HD only creatures).

Orc Racial Traits: based on MM orcs, plus some additional traits.

• +4 Str, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha.
• Base speed is 30 feet.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• Light sensitivity. Orcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell. (No need for that since they are of the hobgoblin race now.)
• Automatic language: goblin/hobgoblin; no other language, orcs are illiterate.
• Favored class: barbarian.
• [new trait] When speaking to another orc, they add their Str modifier to their Diplomacy, Gather Information, or Intimidate checks.
• [new trait] +1 psychopath-racial bonus to attack and damage rolls against other orcs and goblinoids. Orcs really hate their kin, that bastard race who made them so much suffer.

Hobgoblin Racial Traits: As above except that ability scores adj. is +2 Str and -2 Int; hobgoblins can be literate; none of the new traits.


So, what are your comments and suggestions for this take on orcs?

 

[smootrk]

I think your main difference between the 3.x versions of Goblins/Hobgoblins and orcs are that the Goblin races are Lawful, while the current incarnation of Orcs are Chaotic (not so in the past; they originally were LawfulEvil).

The Hobgoblins, while just as evil, tend to organize into military units, regiments, and the like. There was a Hobgoblin article in a relatively recent Dragon magazine that may fill in the blanks for their culture.

Orcs on the other hand, tend to organize themselves into tribes & hordes... a more barbarian focused culture.

I tend to think of Orcs as a separate race from the goblinoids, like dwarves are to gnomes. They may be distantly related but the differences are substantial and they do not generally mix their cultures any more.

As to your take, I see nothing wrong with your spin on them, but I would have it differently.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Hobgoblins

Not to toot my own horn too much, but I wrote a supplement on hobgoblins not too long ago for Reality Deviants. You could always check that out.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=5721&

 

[Sigurd]

Especially if you make a player character race, Hobgoblins are not redundant.

In my campaign Hob is a goblin name for something like orderred.

Hobs are a very civilized somewhat weak goblin variety
Hob Goblins Are militant goblins that despise the Hobs, but also most everything else.
Goblins are everything in between.
Orcs are like Drow Goblins.

Something about the base nature of orcs makes them attractive fodder for magical experiaments. Often these experiaments die out or are absorbed back into the orc tribes. Every year Orcs have brood that are too violent to live normally. They are trained as berzarks and kept on a diet of raw meat.

Goblins have little aptitude for magic but they fear it because they can see themselves in the Orcs that magic has produced. They are generally the bottom of any power structure they inhabit.

Hobs are the secretive freedom lovers of the Goblin caste. They are flexible in terms of their morals. They often breed true and they thrive if they can make connections with the common world. Perhaps 1 in 100 goblins is born a Hob. Most die because of their size and attitude but others run a sort of underground railroad to rescue their brothers. They're favoured class is Wizard.

HobGoblins are often, but not always, a distinct breed of goblins - Larger, better organized, and (in their own minds) destined for leadership. Imagine an arrogant, elitest cross between a Troll and a Stormtrooper.


Especially if you are going to have a character race I think you have to restrict the players to the Orc and Half Orc. Its the simplest addition to to the game and the chaos of the orc background is generally more representative of the ways players tend to dump most of their background elements to play 'adventurers'. IMC player Orcs all have the stats you mention but there certainly are bigger orcs. Hobgoblins are sometimes Orc survivors too although they won't admit it.

I allow hobs as well. Hobs tend to take the fey side of things or the abused castle servant role like a house elf - they also are good scroungers and merchants. Some bravely work among the goblins gathering information and rescueing other hobs. Hobs tend to be Lawful Neutral.


Sigurd

Who isn't selling a PDF because this way he can say what he thinks.