D&D General Orcs are misplaced

[Voadam]

Did someone take them out of the kobold -> goblin -> orc -> hobgoblin -> bugbear hierarchy?

1e HD hierarchy

Kobold 1-4

Goblin 1-7

Orc d8

Hobgoblin d8+1

Gnoll 2d8

Bugbear 3d8 +1


5e 24 lowest CR entry in the SRD:

Kobold Warrior 1/8

Goblin Minion 1/8
Goblin Warrior 1/4

Orc (only represented by NPC stat blocks in 24, in 14 they were 1/2)

Hobgoblin Warrior 1/2

Gnoll Warrior 1/2

Bugbear Warrior 1

 

[Voadam]

Orc have gone around in their identity a lot. In OD&D they were Neutral and Chaotic. In AD&D they were LE. In Basic they were Chaotic. In 3-5e they were Chaotic Evil.

In the 1e MM they were very pig faced, in Jim Holloway 1e and 2e art they were not. In 2e they got another new look in art.

In 3e I house ruled them to be subtype goblinoid with orcish being a dialect of goblin to make it a bit more Tolkienish and consolidate some of the humanoid subtypes, but keeping the Gruumsh-Maglubiyet hostility.

In 4e they were connected with giants/ogres speaking giant and looking similar to ogres.

5e they have a huge Gruumsh CE culture detailed in the 14 PH through the half-orc, the 14 MM, and Volos, then in 24 they get a short description in the PH that does not indicate evil and that is it.

 

[JamesLFlowers]

There are many real world examples of the evolution of Orcs in the game. Rough tribal groups that were pillagers and raiders and evolved into traders, explorers, etc over time.

 

[Maxperson]

There are many real world examples of the evolution of Orcs in the game. Rough tribal groups that were pillagers and raiders and evolved into traders, explorers, etc over time.

In 3e Orcs invaded Rashamen or Thesk(can't remember which) with the Zhentil Keep army. The Zhents abandoned the orcs when they left and the orcs were absorbed into the society of the country they invaded. They became farmers, merchants, workers and some even rose to positions of authority such as sheriff of a city.

The Dale Lands thing isn't the first time orcs have blended with the other races peacefully.

 

[Alzrius]

Did someone take them out of the kobold -> goblin -> orc -> hobgoblin -> bugbear hierarchy?

It's interesting to place that in the category of "giant-class creatures" that's used in AD&D 1E (from the entry on rangers):

Giant class creatures are: bugbears, ettins, giants, gnolls, goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds, ogres, ogre magi, orcs, and trolls.

Now, that list is alphabetical, but if we arrange it by Hit Dice, it'll be like so:

kobolds -> goblins -> orcs -> hobgoblins -> gnolls -> bugbears -> ogres -> ogre magi -> trolls -> hill giants -> stone giants -> ettins -> frost giants -> fire giants -> cloud giants -> storm giants

 

[TwoSix]

Generally, when I misplace my orcs, I try and think back as to where the last place was I remember having them.

 

[Mannahnin]

It's helpful to remember that "Giant class" referred originally just to all evil monsters on the wilderness encounter sub-table labeled "Giants" in OD&D, and that it never had any explicit rationale in OD&D or AD&D.

One could vaguely INFER that these are all monsters which commonly raid the borders of civilization and so which Rangers would have a lot of experience/be specially trained in fighting, but there was literally no explanation at all given in the rules. Merely a list of monsters (expanded by three entries in AD&D). And no indication that these monsters were otherwise related.

Various editions of D&D have explicitly noted a relationship between goblins, hobgoblins, and bugbears as all being "goblinoids". Orcs were explicitly described as "nothing more than overgrown Goblins" in Chainmail, directly taking after Tolkien, but in subsequent publications any association/relationship has seemed to become more vague.

 

[TigerDude]

We need a "Find My Orcs" options on our smart watches then.