Orctopia?

[Jeremy Ackerman-Yost]

Have only used orcs once, and they were pretty much D&D standard (well, perhaps a little more cunning than usually assumed). Orcs have a fairly standard Tolkienesque origin IMC. However, there is a subpopulation (which the players haven't encountered yet, and might or might not depending on what they choose to do next) that has moved to an animistic honorable-warrior culture. Sort of like the Orcs in the most recent WarCraft game.

 

[Dogbrain]

Orcs exist primarily to vicariously fulfill racial genocide fantasies.

 

[diaglo]

Sort of like the Orcs in the most recent WarCraft game.

don't forget to read Grunts too by Mary Gentle

 

[Three_Haligonians]

exploring the gray is fun.

however, just like the MM states. the majority are evil.

there culture breeds this. there deities promote this. there bloodlust demands it.

the nuture vs. nature of orcs is... evil.

the lone neutral or good orc is an aberration.

We don't understand your quote: "the nurture vs. nature of orcs is...evil" do you mean to say that orcs are evil as a result of BOTH nature and nurture? For example, in a game J is leading one of our PC's is a sorceror who specialises in mind affecting spells. She encountered an orc who was part of an army of orcs, the guy was definately evil...like most orcs. She hit him with a "charm monster" spell so that he would be friendly with her...we can agree: at this point, still evil. However, while on the road with this orc, gaining tactical information about his army, the two were attacked by a pixie (long story concerning the sorceror), during which, the orc was hit by the pixie's arrow of "memory loss". So, in regards to nature vrs. nurture, we have now completely erased the orc's nurture, he has no recollection of his upbringing. The orc is effectively like a newborn. He is, at this point, raised by a kind and benevolent man. In our campaign, J lends more to the orc's nurture than he does to the nature, meaning: the orc becomes a kind, benevolent man, like the man who cared for him.

Just to clarify in regards to this orc. He is no longer influenced by any sort of magic. The "charm monster" and memory loss arrow simply created a situation in which a grown orc is given a clean slate in regards to his rearing. Also, J has given the orc a personality that reflects his orcish nature, in that the orc has problems concerning his anger. He is, effectivly, always working to keep his orcish rage at bay in order to make calm, rational choices, and, like all people, ocasionally he loses control of this.

So, Diaglo, and anyone else concerned: Would our orc be a kind, benevolent sort of person (bear in mind we are talking about most likely, we are aware that people are not always a carbon copy of their parent), or would his nature dictate that there would be nothing we could do to change his ways?

Thanks again everyone!

J, T, and R of Three Haligonians

 

[Prest0]

(snip) Also, J has given the orc a personality that reflects his orcish nature, in that the orc has problems concerning his anger. He is, effectivly, always working to keep his orcish rage at bay in order to make calm, rational choices, and, like all people, ocasionally he loses control of this.

So, Diaglo, and anyone else concerned: Would our orc be a kind, benevolent sort of person (bear in mind we are talking about most likely, we are aware that people are not always a carbon copy of their parent), or would his nature dictate that there would be nothing we could do to change his ways?

Sounds like you've already hit the nail on the head. It doesn't have to be an either/or, but a combination of the two. While his new "upbringing" played an important role in developing as a person, there may also be physiological forces at work that keep him from fully living up to the potential of his upbringing. As you pointed out, he may very well have trouble controling his temper. He may have very short patience, which in turn would lead to learning difficulties, which in turn might lead to self esteem issues, which might in turn lead to poor social skills. He might turn out like the sullen "bad" teenager of the perfect parents.

 

[Fargoth]

The game and sourcebook called Orkworld takes Orks, (or as they are called in the AD&D community ... Orcs) from a very different viewpoint. Orkword is played from the view of the Orcs who are trying to stop the encroachment of their lands and culture by the evil dwarves, elves, humans and other vile races. It's played from an "evil is in the eye of the beholder" mindset. It's a very good book and one that, while I haven't ever played, still serves as a valuable resource for ideas and seeds in my AD&D travels.

PERTINENT INFO:
TITLE: ORKWORLD
AUTHOR: JOHN WICK
PUBLISHER: WICKED PRESS

 

[Felikeries]

There can't be a player alive that doesn't understand that Orc is
the way to presume a variant for encounters or a dungeon or keep
is the flume of vile combat and a series of spell buffers or encounters
that have a 'dark' sense of being......

With this in mind the actual way of forming the Orc parties,scouts,hordes,
gaurds,encounters.... is easily set into an alignment ideal for any changes
to the way they are presented

#1
chaotic -players may speak,have undertones,rely on bluntness as party aginst Orc in lue of the encounter

#2
evil -players will have a chance to met through how the encounter will go
and be concerned about enviorne,however there is only attack

#3
neutral - the Orcs have a powetrfull place in adventures and making sure
that they can take place may turn some that are met and spoken with into a more representing NPC with this alignment,though doubt for the better virtue of reason or an int. check may effect a characters who finds an Orc or Orc of this nature

 

[VirgilCaine]

but the fact remains that the MM has certainly allowed for the possibility of neutral, good, or even downright benevolent orcs.

Heh? Good orcs are less than benevolent?

He may have very short patience, which in turn would lead to learning difficulties, which in turn might lead to self esteem issues, which might in turn lead to poor social skills.

Maybe he would have learning issues with some methods of teaching (like those used today), but there are other ways to learn besides the ones we use.

 

[Sejs]

In my campaign I've got two different types of orcs. The neutral orcs and the evil orcs. The evil orcs worship demons and their interpretation of the orc pantheon, are incredibly violent and are more or less like the ones described in the MM. The neutral orcs are kind of a klingons-meet-mongolians-meet-(post burning legion) warcraft orcs hybrid. They're steppes raiders and horsemen who enjoy a good fight, a good meal, and good comrades to enjoy it with. They worship nature spirits, their neutral protector-type interpretation of the orcish pantheon and revere their ancestors. The only neighbors to the neutral orcs territory is the last remaining dwarven kingdom (the other dwarven kingdoms were wiped out in an ages-ago cataclysm and the scraps and remainders all came together to form the aformentioned last bastion of dwarfdom). There was some back and forth fighting between the orcs and dwarves for a time after the dwarves moved into the mountains to the north, but it didn't take long for the two parties to realize that they were at something of a standstill. The dwarves lived in-and-under the mountains, and had gunpowder. They were wonderfully defended, but couldn't really do anything to go out and get the orcs in the event that they repelled an attack. The orcs could move too fast (particularly on their mounts) and knew the terrain outside the mountains too well to persue. And on the other hand, the orcs quickly found out that even if they were able to breach the dwarves outer defenses, the terrain beyond was too restricted to accomodate their normal hit-and-run guerilla style tactics.

In time a compromise was reached between the two races, and a peace was established.

So, yeah, in my game there are noble, honorable orcs in addition to the slavering monsterous ones. It's not exactly orctopia, but it's something.

 

[WayneLigon]

Are you "there be orcs, there be dead orcs" type of person, or the "Excuse me, but is it possible that you are only acting out of a neverending cycle of violence" type of person? We can't wait to hear your opinions!

Generally unless the GM has previously informed me otherwise that such cases of benevolent orcs may exist in the area, I'm going to assume Orc = Enemy. There might be exceptions; rarely will I have a character attack just out of hand, but will usually wait for the other side to make the first move unless there is some compelling reason not to.

I've used neutral orcs, who deal with humans (though they don't really like them) for things they cannot or will not produce for themselves, but I don't think a Good orc has ever made an appearance.