Order of applying negative bonuses with an attack? how to?

[ZethVorador]

My current question is concerning my assassins death attack.

My planned scenario and the one in question is this:

An assassin makes a death attack on a target. He has Aleval School for a feat. He has a enervating souldrinking cursespewing weapon. His attack is a confirmed critical.

Now I've been told that you can apply negative levels and negatives to saves before your target rolls it's save vs your death attack dc.

What order does this work in? A failed death attack is still a sneak attack? If you use something like Aleval school with a death attack does it sacrafice SA dice on a failed death attack? Basically I can't figure out why you can apply negatives before the DA save and where it says you can?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[MerricB]

From the description of the assassin in the SRD:
"If an assassin studies his victim for 3 rounds and then makes a sneak attack with a melee weapon that successfully deals damage, the sneak attack has the additional effect of possibly either paralyzing or killing the target (assassin’s choice)."

So, the death attack is an additional effect on top of the normal sneak attack damage. Aleval School allows you to sacrifice sneak attack dice to give a saving throw penalty.

Thus the attack might be written:
+10 vs AC, 1d6 +4 +2d6 sneak attack + saving throw penalty + death attack (DC 19) or whatever.

So, the penalty to saves, damage and death attack all happen at the same time. Interpreting this so the saving throw penalty takes place before the death attack save doesn't seem to be supported by the mechanics (it isn't unsupported either - it's just not mentioned). I think the idea goes, "takes all the effects, which triggers a save - oh look, it's now got a save penalty".

I think, in this case, it comes down to DM's call.

Cheers!

 

[delericho]

As MerricB says, that's a DM's call. Here's how I would handle it...

An assassin makes a death attack on a target. He has Aleval School for a feat. He has a enervating souldrinking cursespewing weapon. His attack is a confirmed critical.

Well, the first thing to say is that that weapon wouldn't exist in my campaign. If nothing else, souldrinking would overlap (not stack) with enervating. But that's an aside.

Now I've been told that you can apply negative levels and negatives to saves before your target rolls it's save vs your death attack dc.

IMC, not a chance. Target saves first, then applies the negative levels and the save penalty.

What order does this work in? A failed death attack is still a sneak attack?

Yes.

If you use something like Aleval school with a death attack does it sacrafice SA dice on a failed death attack?

IMC, you would have to declare the use of the feat before making the attack roll, including your choice of save to target.

Basically I can't figure out why you can apply negatives before the DA save and where it says you can?

I don't believe this is addressed anywhere. Of course, I might be wrong.