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Origin of Wizards Tower in Legend and Literature?
- Thread starter johnsemlak
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johnsemlak
First Post
Aaron
That was a very intriguing post. Well written, thanks for it. If you can find any of those specific references to 'wizard's towers' in gothic romance, please post them here.
And Gez, good point about the Ivory Tower. Why exactly do we call it an ivory tower anyway?
That was a very intriguing post. Well written, thanks for it. If you can find any of those specific references to 'wizard's towers' in gothic romance, please post them here.
And Gez, good point about the Ivory Tower. Why exactly do we call it an ivory tower anyway?
If memory serves, predating Howard is Lord Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter, so I did a quick search and turned up some reviews including this one. No mention of towers, but it really is a rather good, thought-provoking review:
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9626.phtml
One of the comments pointed me to this short story by Dunsany, which is also really rather good...and as the review notes, speaks of what fantasy perhaps could have been, rather than what it is:
http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/d_quest.htm
Again, no towers, but wow, that prose...
http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/9/9626.phtml
One of the comments pointed me to this short story by Dunsany, which is also really rather good...and as the review notes, speaks of what fantasy perhaps could have been, rather than what it is:
http://www.sff.net/people/doylemacdonald/d_quest.htm
Again, no towers, but wow, that prose...
jester47
First Post
Looking at the etymologies of tower, sorcerer, and wizard, there are two points to look in the english language. This does not mean that they could have happened in other languages before this time, but this is the earliest source it will show up where we have a practitioner of magic in a tower. Sorcerer and Tower both show up in the written english language about the 13th century. Wizard meaning what we mean shows up about the middle of the 14th. Tower comes from the word torr meaning high structure or place and shows up in the 13th. Sorcerer comes from a word meaning manipulation of fates. Wizard is from "wys" + "ard" meaning wise one.
So we are probably looking for somthing 15th c. or later as a translation from another culture or written after that period.
Aaron.
So we are probably looking for somthing 15th c. or later as a translation from another culture or written after that period.
Aaron.
jester47
First Post
I just had a thought. Its not going to be anything majorly obscure. Most everything in LotR comes from some other obvious literary source. The ents, come from macbeth, Eowyn, Arwyn, and Galadriel are representatives of the three witches- the tripple goddess, the maiden (arwyn) the mother (Eowyn) and the Crone (Galadriel). Aragorn comes from robin hood/ivanhoe, the hobbit in almost its entirity comes from beowulf, huge parts come from the finnish mythologies.
It occurs to me- does TH White put Merlin in a tower like Disney does in their rendition of the Sword in the Stone? If so we might have a winner or another victim given that the date of publication is 1939.
However, I just remembered that there were some Norse (?) fairy/folk tales I read a while back that had wizards in towers.
So here are the culprits as far as I can tell:
Gothic Romance - maybe "The Monk?"
Nordic Fairy/Folk tales
Kalevala
Here is a page from national geographic that talks about JRRT and gives some good links.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngbeyond/rings/
Also, from that page is this one
http://www.mythsoc.org/
I think the question we need to ask is "Where did JRRT get the idea of the Wizard in the Tower from?" If you ask a Tolkein Scholar the question is "Where did he get the idea for Saruman and Orthanc?"
Aaron.
It occurs to me- does TH White put Merlin in a tower like Disney does in their rendition of the Sword in the Stone? If so we might have a winner or another victim given that the date of publication is 1939.
However, I just remembered that there were some Norse (?) fairy/folk tales I read a while back that had wizards in towers.
So here are the culprits as far as I can tell:
Gothic Romance - maybe "The Monk?"
Nordic Fairy/Folk tales
Kalevala
Here is a page from national geographic that talks about JRRT and gives some good links.
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ngbeyond/rings/
Also, from that page is this one
http://www.mythsoc.org/
I think the question we need to ask is "Where did JRRT get the idea of the Wizard in the Tower from?" If you ask a Tolkein Scholar the question is "Where did he get the idea for Saruman and Orthanc?"
Aaron.
Some other posters touched on something I was going to say: The etymology may point to something older and less exciting than what we are looking for.
Simply put, the word 'wizard' derives from the Middle English wise + ard, meaning a kind of philosoher, or sage. Such 'wizards' were invariably found near stores of knowledge (books), which were usually housed in monastaries or other castle-like structures. These storehouses often took the shape of towers, and since philosophers are given to study (and not the most sociable in society), the notion of the isolated scholar secluded in his tower is not an unreasonable image.
Moreover, the tower as metaphor, something already touched on in this thread, is a symbol rich in meaning. A separated structure, in this case a solitary tower, is really no different than the scholar himself. A wizard is a person whose knowledge isolates him from the members of the community. A 'wizard's' knowledge is, symbolically, something powerful, imposing, and inaccesible to all but the most skilled and determined in society, and because of that, the wizard stands alone. And as someone mentioned before, the practice of alchemy and astronomy must have seemed, to the uneducated mind, akin to magic.
So the whole notion of the wizard and the tower may be older than we think, stretching as far back as the beginning of written language and the early structures where the 'wizard' isolated himself for his studies. At least, that's my take on it.
Simply put, the word 'wizard' derives from the Middle English wise + ard, meaning a kind of philosoher, or sage. Such 'wizards' were invariably found near stores of knowledge (books), which were usually housed in monastaries or other castle-like structures. These storehouses often took the shape of towers, and since philosophers are given to study (and not the most sociable in society), the notion of the isolated scholar secluded in his tower is not an unreasonable image.
Moreover, the tower as metaphor, something already touched on in this thread, is a symbol rich in meaning. A separated structure, in this case a solitary tower, is really no different than the scholar himself. A wizard is a person whose knowledge isolates him from the members of the community. A 'wizard's' knowledge is, symbolically, something powerful, imposing, and inaccesible to all but the most skilled and determined in society, and because of that, the wizard stands alone. And as someone mentioned before, the practice of alchemy and astronomy must have seemed, to the uneducated mind, akin to magic.
So the whole notion of the wizard and the tower may be older than we think, stretching as far back as the beginning of written language and the early structures where the 'wizard' isolated himself for his studies. At least, that's my take on it.
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