Orson Scott Card on Trek & Rebuttal

[GSHamster]

I think that TOS had a lot of good science fiction elements and stories, and also a lot of very poor elements. Part of the problem is that we tend to remember the 5-10 best episodes ('City on the Edge of Forever', etc.) far more than we remember the rest of the show. Personally, if you averaged out everything, TOS would probably be on the mediocre side, but there are a few episodes which are excellent.

But that's the original series. If we look at the later series, have they really improved on TOS? There's a pretty good argument that they haven't. In fact, in a lot of areas they're worse (particularly the overreliance on technobabble). Are they really exploring new areas, new 'What ifs' in a science fiction concept? TNG I think tried, but when thinking upon Voyager and Enterprise, I don't really think they explored any new concepts.

So I'm with Card in his assertion that Trek never really improved from its starting point, especially from a science fiction point of view.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

All this squabble over the definition of "science fiction". From what I read of Card's column, he doesn't define it beyond what he thinks belong in the category. Based on what he groups in the category of the top shelf of television examples I would say he is actually talking about "speculative fiction" but is using the popular term "science fiction" because that is what the vast, VAST, majority of readers will be familiar with.

I still think Card is correct in his observations.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Hrrrrmph. After Star Trek, William Shatner has gone on to have 2 hit TV shows (TJ Hooker and Boston Legal) and a hit record. How is that not charismatic?

"Boston Legal," while a lot of fun, was pulled off in mid-year and won't be back until next year. "Has Been" is a great album, but a large portion of those buying it are picking it up as a novelty. And "TJ Hooker" was a hit in the same way "JAG" was -- old people unable to change the channel seem to have made up most of the viewership.

Anyway, Card's comments were about the fact that "Star Trek" weren't cutting edge sci-fi, which I think is hard to argue with. Most of its fans don't like it for that reason, though, which is why the rebuttals totally miss the mark: Each side is arguing different points entirely, neither of them wrong, really.

 

[Welverin]

If you could have asked those authors to pen a script for a show that will last one hour (less with commercials), that will capture your audience quickly and will explore interesting topics in a way that is accessible to a large number of people. You will probably find that they would have been hard pressed to succeed.

Wasn't this the root of the problem with Harlan Ellison's episode? Harlan was incapable of turning a script that work for an hour long television episode so it got sent back, repeatedly, but eventually they ran out of time, which forced Gene and company to rewrite it themselves. Harlan got pissy and decided ST sucked and started badmouthing it from then on (after having praised it).

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

'City on the Edge of Forever'

* contented sigh *

I never really liked TOS. But I loved that episode. I guess, for me, the cheese just worked perfectly that one time. I'd consider buying an entire season on DVD just for that episode.

But I can't say I'd spend $10 for the next OSC book. After reading 5 Ender Wiggins novels, I could not care less about Ender, Bean, Petra, & company. And after the disappointing drek of the Alvin Maker series (despite a great first novel, Seventh Son, which created a most interesting alternate history of the U.S.A.), I think OSC should be the last one to critcize any franchise for overstaying its welcome.

 

[barsoomcore]

An inferior writer explains why he doesn't like a inferior TV show.

Enter chorus, chanting in two voices, disagreeing.

Then everyone watches Firefly, reads The Sun, the Moon and the Stars and discusses collaborative tools and how they can help disadvantaged children in Peruvian shantytowns.

...

Hey, I can dream, can't I?

 

[mojo1701]

I never did get "Firefly," myself.

Then again, I haven't watched a lot of it. I liked the characters, though some make me wonder "What is with this guy?"

...or girl.

 

[WayneLigon]

Wasn't this the root of the problem with Harlan Ellison's episode?

Something like that, if I remember right. Then again, Ellison - while a brilliant writer - is also really touchy. Who knows what set him off? He was scheduled to appear on a talk show, then just got up and left when introduced as 'Science Fiction Writer, Harlan Ellison' because he didn't see himself as a 'science fiction' writer, but just as a 'writer'.

It certainly was not the first or last time Ellison has had trouble with a TV series, though from most of the accounts I've seen it's really been more of a 'baby, we love the script and when we add the robot dinosaurs, it'll really sing!' situation.

 

[WayneLigon]

If we look at the later series, have they really improved on TOS? There's a pretty good argument that they haven't. In fact, in a lot of areas they're worse (particularly the overreliance on technobabble).

I can't argue with that at all. Paramount has been very, very conservative with a franchise that for decades was (and still is, as far as I'm aware) a big cash cow. I still think that the original show had a lot going for it, much more so than Card does, but things could have changed and improved later on.

 

[Rackhir]

Something like that, if I remember right. Then again, Ellison - while a brilliant writer - is also really touchy. Who knows what set him off? He was scheduled to appear on a talk show, then just got up and left when introduced as 'Science Fiction Writer, Harlan Ellison' because he didn't see himself as a 'science fiction' writer, but just as a 'writer'.

It certainly was not the first or last time Ellison has had trouble with a TV series, though from most of the accounts I've seen it's really been more of a 'baby, we love the script and when we add the robot dinosaurs, it'll really sing!' situation.

I've always been convinced that one of the greatest tributes to B5 is the fact that they managed to get Harlan Ellison to be associated with them for the full 5 year run without him going nuts on them.