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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
OSE's official alternate Thief skills to good?
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<blockquote data-quote="Theory of Games" data-source="post: 9428994" data-attributes="member: 7042201"><p>I'll start with "these are just my opinions":</p><p></p><p>Referencing the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia, a <strong><em>20th-level</em></strong> Thief has a 82% chance of removing a trap. </p><p></p><p>Referencing the AD&D Players' Handbook, a <strong><em>14th-level</em></strong> Thief has a 85% chance of finding and removing a trap. </p><p></p><p>There's something here to be said about LBA (Level Based Advancement) and why that system is important. The "game" of D&D is getting our squishy 1st-level characters as far up the "level mountain" as possible. If you've played BECMI and AD&D, you understand this aint easy. But, it can be the best fun any game has ever offered, to include the sense of reward that comes from EARNING <em>36 levels of experience</em> (RC).</p><p></p><p>IF a designer shifts high-level capability onto 1st-level characters, the <s>structure</s> challenge of a game depending on LBA begins to weaken. Consequently, the obstacles that once challenged the PC DON'T and the D/GM will struggle to provide interesting adventures for that overpowered character. This was the (very widespread) problem with 3e-5e: GMs were/are having a hard time challenging the overpowered PCs because the structure of D&D had been broken (player capability had increased but the capability of most traps and monsters either remained the same as AD&D or they had been <em>nerfed</em>). </p><p></p><p>Of course this stands right in the middle of "play experience", and yeah, it's fun to run through a game slamming every obstacle with little or no effort. Until it isn't (see <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-linear-fighter-quadratic-wizard-problem.690929/" target="_blank">LFQW</a>). So, when I say that a LI Thief being able to crack locks with 83% ability is broken, I'm looking at what that kind of capability will do to a campaign as that PC levels. </p><p></p><p>But I'm a FGM (Forever Gamemaster) and again, these are my opinions. I'm open to others <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f44d.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt="(y)" title="Thumbs up (y)" data-smilie="22"data-shortname="(y)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Theory of Games, post: 9428994, member: 7042201"] I'll start with "these are just my opinions": Referencing the BECMI Rules Cyclopedia, a [B][I]20th-level[/I][/B] Thief has a 82% chance of removing a trap. Referencing the AD&D Players' Handbook, a [B][I]14th-level[/I][/B] Thief has a 85% chance of finding and removing a trap. There's something here to be said about LBA (Level Based Advancement) and why that system is important. The "game" of D&D is getting our squishy 1st-level characters as far up the "level mountain" as possible. If you've played BECMI and AD&D, you understand this aint easy. But, it can be the best fun any game has ever offered, to include the sense of reward that comes from EARNING [I]36 levels of experience[/I] (RC). IF a designer shifts high-level capability onto 1st-level characters, the [S]structure[/S] challenge of a game depending on LBA begins to weaken. Consequently, the obstacles that once challenged the PC DON'T and the D/GM will struggle to provide interesting adventures for that overpowered character. This was the (very widespread) problem with 3e-5e: GMs were/are having a hard time challenging the overpowered PCs because the structure of D&D had been broken (player capability had increased but the capability of most traps and monsters either remained the same as AD&D or they had been [I]nerfed[/I]). Of course this stands right in the middle of "play experience", and yeah, it's fun to run through a game slamming every obstacle with little or no effort. Until it isn't (see [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-linear-fighter-quadratic-wizard-problem.690929/']LFQW[/URL]). So, when I say that a LI Thief being able to crack locks with 83% ability is broken, I'm looking at what that kind of capability will do to a campaign as that PC levels. But I'm a FGM (Forever Gamemaster) and again, these are my opinions. I'm open to others (y) [/QUOTE]
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OSE's official alternate Thief skills to good?
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