[OT, grammar and punctuation] Use of commas in US and British style?

In all my writing with MEG/TG, I use a comma before the and.
"When the door opens, an iron golem, stone golem, and flesh golem all attack."


But, what I really want to know is, at what point in my life did JUDGEMENT start being spelled JUDGMENT?

That bugs the hell out of me.

Seemingly overnight everyone started dropping the 'e'. I don't understand that.

The rogue/rouge thing really irks me, too.
That, and lose/loose. And "ect." when people mean "etc.". Nothing pains me more than reading something that says "and ect, ect, ect..." Aaaaargh!
 

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New words should be judged on their merit.

"Internet" fills a necessary void for describing a new technology.
"Nukular" is a rapidly diffusing mispronunciation.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not fond of what seems like a gradual dumbening of English. It seems so innecessitous.
Note: dumbening is at best a pseudo-word, and innecessitous is a ridiculous corruption of unnecessary.

I tell you the language is all confrubed! It perturburates me so!
I prefer to put the burden of language on the writer (to learn what is accepted as correct), rather than on the reader (to learn the meanings of irregularities in the writer's material).

Note: Confrube is my own personal contribution to the language, a verb meaning "to mess up; screw up; ruin or confuse [object]".
I freely admit that the word is mostly useless.

EDIT: Grammar, of course:)
 
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Morrus said:


Sure - but if you extend that principle, you don't have a language any more.

I could just type giurkjhfd and claim that it was English because that's how I use it. But it's not, and never should be.

There are reasons for rules of language and grammar - very good reasons. They help us communicate. If dialects start deviating too much, they'll be different languages. We won't understand each other (in fact, that's actually already happened!)

It's not about unique made-up usages, it's about common usages that are understood throughout the language community, which are despised and derided solely on the whim of William Safire, E.B. White, or Joe Blow's 9th-grade English teacher. Can you seriously argue that people don't understand what, say, the long-standing and regularly generated dialect form "anyways" means vs. the ostensibly more standard "anyway"? I myself don't find that to be a great intellectual challege.

Not but a few generations ago, there was a commonly promulgated rule, with utterly no basis in historical usage, that "shall" was the correct alternative to "will" for 1st person agreement. Even today you'll find a few troglodytes still trying to beat that little gem into their students, and it's just complete malarkey. No significant speech community can be demonstrated to have ever had such a rule as part of its grammar. It may have been introduced because it was felt by the authors of the rule to be more polite to apply shall, which archaically had (and sometimes still does) a more obligatory sense, to oneself than will, which archaically had a more voluntary sense. It's the same bizarre logic that leads to the insistence on "you and me" vs. "me and you". Who decided it's more polite? God? Jonathan Swift? Mrs. Grundy? I don't feel offended by "me and you." I think you'd have to be at least mildly insane to take that as an offense.

There certainly are perceptible rules to English grammar that are generally agreed upon among the various dialects, but the problem is that the people who write the rule books often seem more bent on expressing their idiosyncratic personal preferences than on elucidating the unspoken rules of usage that prevail in the real world. Sadly these books are then often slavishly bowed to by persons who apparently respect authority more than the evidence of their own ears. "Yes, master, I shall not split an infinitive, for it doth offend thine ears, even though my peers and ancestors have been doing it for the last 800 years <mindless drool>." Anybody can invent any little peeve like that they feel like. Expecting others to really go around changing their entire speech patterns to humor one's affected peeves is juvenile and ridiculous though. The difference with nabobs like Safire & co. is that they actually have some influence with which to make their peevishness felt. Marion Zimmer Bradley was refreshingly honest about it when she pointed out that ultimately her editorial rules were the rules because it was her magazine. Most of those people act like English grammar was handed to them on stone tablets from Mt. Sinai.

The rules you read in your high school English class are nice and all, but in the real world, they often make your words sound pretty damn stupid if you insist on using them all the time. Scientific writers might as well just throw S&W out, because it's so totally unrealistic with regard to accepted professional style in the sciences, not to mention horribly dated in many aspects of general style.

I have to disagree about dialect divergence as well. What you say may have been true at one time, but practically speaking extreme dialect divergence is dead and it's not coming back. Just in the last 50 years, the convergence of regional dialects in the United States has been distinctly perceptible. Sure, there's still mild drift, but unintelligibility only develops when the speaking community, consciously or unconsciously, intends for it to develop (as with teen or Black slang).

Historically, dialect divergence within cohesive political or cultural units seldom if ever led to true mutual unintelligibility. Even disparate or unrelated languages when bound within some political geographic or political unit (forming a Sprachbund, as it's called) natually tend to come to resemble each other. This is why German and the Romance languages have a number of uncanny similarities which are demonstrably not the result of their distant common heritage.
 

RobNJ said:

ANYWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Anyways" drives me bugf*ck. I actually ended a date early one time because a girl said, "anyways."

Hold on - I'm still looking for "bugf*ck" in the dictionary...
 

Pielorinho said:


Bran, you didn't answer my question. Are we all a bunch of childer, a bunch of children, or a bunch of childrens, to be sniping at one another over such trivial matters? Please defend your answer :D.

And Bran, my sweet kinder, don't forget to answer my question!

Daniel

Well, since you were quoting The Whiner Knight I did not notice you asking me any questions.

The answer is simple. I am a man.
I haven't really done the investigating to reveal what you are. Such is life online.

Marginally closer to what you are looking for;
Just because a bunch of undereducated mooks, back in the day, goofed up a word until the mistake became the norm, doesn't mean we should be letting that sort of thing happen in this day and age.
People are poorly educated enough as it is, without condoning this sort of lazy nonsense.

Sure, your position wins out over hundreds of years. Then again, since that position relies on people that are too lazy and too lacking in pride to learn how to speak their own language...
 

Ranes said:

Apostrophe deployment in capitalised abbreviations: NPC's, to me, is possessive singular, NPCs' is possessive plural and NPCs is just plural. Simple.


An apostrophe denotes possession or omission. In the word "can't", the apostrophe stands for the missing letters "no" in "cannot". In the same way, the apostrophe "s" after an initialisation can represent the omitted letters between the capital and the terminal "s". So in the case of "NPC's", the apostrophe can be a substitution for the missing letters in "Characters".

"NPC's" can also mean belonging to the NPC. You can normally tell whether it's possessive or plural from the context.
 

die_kluge said:
But, what I really want to know is, at what point in my life did JUDGEMENT start being spelled JUDGMENT?

That bugs the hell out of me.

Seemingly overnight everyone started dropping the 'e'. I don't understand that.


In British English, "judgment" is correct only in a legal context. For example: "The law lords ruled that frozen embryos belong to both parents. Their judgment means that Mrs Smith will not be able to use the embryo without her ex-husband's consent." In all other cases, "judgement" with an "e" is correct.
 


RangerWickett said:
What about this one: using apostrophes for words that end in "s"?

This is the prince's horse. That is the princess' horse. Those are the dukes' horses. Out of them all, Marcus' horse is the best.

or

This is the prince's horse. That is the princess's horse. Those are the dukes' horses. Out of them all, Marcus's horse is the best.

So, if the word is singular, and ends in s, do you just add an apostrophe, or do you go apostrophe and then another s?
In British English, both are correct as long you use one style consistently in any given text. The latter is more traditional.

In US English, "s's" is generally considered wrong.
 

Mistwell said:
Third page.

This discussion is now on its third page!

How am I supposed to convince people that D&D players do actually have lives, if this discussion is already on its third page?

Silence nave! Grammer is importunt, end so is speling!
 

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