[OT, grammar and punctuation] Use of commas in US and British style?

[Tsyr]

Hijack: The thing that gets me is people who say "Well, my PIN number is..."

PIN NUMBER IS REDUNDANT! THE "N" IN PIN STANDS FOR NUMBER, DANGIT!

That error, and a few others that are similar (using the last letter in an acronym as part of the sentance despite using the full acronym) REALLY bug me. I mean, if I just heard it once and a while, I could live. But I recently found that usage in a little pamphlet from my bank... "Never give your PIN number out to other people". GAH!

 

[Morrus]

"I could care less" is a sarcastic phrase, along the lines of, "As if I could care less!"

I have to disagree with that. "I could care less" is an incorrect version of the common phrase "I couldn't care less".

Incidentally, your logic doesn't work. "As if I could care less", by your rationale, therefore means the same as "As if I cared" (which is sarcastic). It doesn't - it's the opposite.

 

[Lizard]

Hijack: The thing that gets me is people who say "Well, my PIN number is..."


PIN NUMBER IS REDUNDANT! THE "N" IN PIN STANDS FOR NUMBER, DANGIT!

SALT Talks.

 

[Tsyr]

SALT Talks.

And, thanks to http://www.acronymfinder.com/, I actualy know what that is!

Another one that gets me is "SAT tests"

A friend of mine said something to the effect of "I may not be very good at math, but I'm gonna ace the enlish-type stuff on my SAT tests".

 

[Warrior Poet]

Another Office of Redundancy Office occupant: ATM machine.

Warrior Poet

 

[CRGreathouse]

That error, and a few others that are similar (using the last letter in an acronym as part of the sentance despite using the full acronym) REALLY bug me. I mean, if I just heard it once and a while, I could live. But I recently found that usage in a little pamphlet from my bank... "Never give your PIN number out to other people". GAH!

Yeah, that really bugs me, too.

 

[Duncan Haldane]

Commas - I was always taught that you don't need a comma before the 'and'. In fact, what I was taught was that putting that comma in started a new sub-group (such as in the orgies example).

Another time I've seen dispute of commas is in ownership. When the sentence is directed to someone, such as "Jack, bring in the cows". My flatmate says the comma is unnecessary. I say it is absolutely necessary - for exampe...
"What's up, Doc?"
and "What's up Doc?" are two VERY different questions.

And as for "irregardless", www.dictionary.com writes:
"Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so."

Also, see my .sig

Duncan

 

[omedon]

I am strongly on the side of placing the comma before the and, though I agree that both methods are acceptable and common practice.

My reason in putting the comma before the and is clarity.

When I travel to Quebec I will stop and visit all of my friends: Allan, Cindy, Frank and Martha, Paul, Rick and Sarah.

In the example pairing is used. John, Cindy, Frank, and Jan are clearly individuals. Frank and Martha are a couple and will both be met in one stop. But in this case the nature of Rick and Sarah's relationship is ubiquitous. The reader is unsure of whether they are paired or not.

In most cases you will not have this problem and you won't need to place the comma before and in order to be clear. However, as others have mentioned consistency is important; this is why I always place the comma before the and. That way I never end up switching styles in the middle of my writing.

Well, there you go, Ryan. Looks like you're technically wrong.

The thing that really bugs me is "I could care less". It means the exact opposite of the phrase people are trying to use, which is "I couldn't care less." I mean, it makes sense, right? So how come so many people get it wrong?

If you couldn't care less, then your caring of the issue in question is as low as it can be. You don't care.

If you could care less, then you obviously do care. Otherwise, how would you be able to care less than you currently do?

This bothers me a lot as well (notice I spelled it a lot not alot which is another thing that drives me nuts). I even went to the trouble of looking it up on the internet. The few sites I found on the subject suggested that saying "I could care less" was a sarcastic phrase; I didn't go for that though. I don't believe any of the people I have met that have used phrase "I could care less" ever intended any sarcasm.

The phrase "Head over heels" also does not make much logical sense, really it should be "heels over head" it does not irk me as much though.

 

[omedon]

The activities include a search for lost treasure, dubious financial dealings, much discussion of ancient heresies and midnight orgies.

vs

The activities include a search for lost treasure, dubious financial dealings, much discussion of ancient heresies, and midnight orgies.

I missed this my first time around. It illustrates my point perfectly

 

[Duncan Haldane]

When I travel to Quebec I will stop and visit all of my friends: Allan, Cindy, Frank and Martha, Paul, Rick and Sarah.

In the example pairing is used. John, Cindy, Frank, and Jan are clearly individuals. Frank and Martha are a couple and will both be met in one stop. But in this case the nature of Rick and Sarah's relationship is ubiquitous. The reader is unsure of whether they are paired or not.

Actually, I disagree with you here. If Rick and Sarah, as a couple, were treated as one entity then the sentence would be:
"When I travel to Quebec I will stop and visit all of my friends: Allan, Cindy, Frank and Martha, Paul and Rick and Sarah"

Now, this doesn't read so well, but 'Rick and Sarah' is the equivalent of saying 'Rick', since it is being used as a single entity.

Duncan