[OT] Hero System Fifth Ed Review

[Psion]

At first glance the biggest change and only real paradihm shift is that for the first time this is truly a Hero System book. Past editions were always first published as 'Champions: the super roleplaying game'. And as a afterthought "and you can do more with it." Now Hero System is being pushed as a universal RPG that happens to be well suited to superheros.

Incorrect. 4th ed was marketed both as "Champions" (the "big blue book") and as a stand-alone Hero-system book. In fact, the BBB was split along the lines of system and setting.

After literally years without any new Hero books, it's a pleasant surprise that with the release of FREd, the second new Hero book, Ultimate Martial Artist, has been sent to the printers and should be released in mid May. And Ninja Hero, a genre guide to martial arts campaigns, is underway, being written by Michael Surbrook.

Wow... my two favorite HERO system books for 4th ed are first in the pipe for 5th? Excellent. That said, I wonder how close they will be to the original versions of those books. I worry.

 

[Psion]

I'm not very familiar with the Hero System but with GURPS and from your review it sound very much like the big-G System.

Can anyone tell me what the difference between Hero and GURPS is?

[flamebait]
1) Hero works
[/flamebait]

2) GURPS is more focussed on skills; in Hero skills are more of an afterthought (don't know if this has changed in 5ed)
3) HERO is more linear, and relies on campaign limits vice convoluted cost schemes to keep things in control.
4) GURPS has no metasystem and is pretty much limited to what supplements you have or how far you are willing to homebrew it. Hero's power design system is a sort of metasystem that lets you do nearly anything by representing the effects.

 

[paqman]

Thanks for the review Omega,

I am really eager to get that book in my hands, we started a game 2 weeks ago that is shaping up to last a long time and I hope to have the book soon to make sure that I change what needs to be changed as soon as possible.

At least, I have already bought my Aid at 10 points/dice.

 

[Black Omega]

Re: Re: [OT] Hero System Fifth Ed Review

Wow... my two favorite HERO system books for 4th ed are first in the pipe for 5th? Excellent. That said, I wonder how close they will be to the original versions of those books. I worry.

Well, the new Ultimate Martial Artist book is by Steve Long again, so I think you are in good hands there. the Ninja Hero book is evidently by Michael Surbrook. I don't think Surbrook has done a book yet, but he did the Kazei 5 anime sourcebook released as a pdf by Hero Games. I'm pretty confident he'll turn out a good product.

2) GURPS is more focussed on skills; in Hero skills are more of an afterthought (don't know if this has changed in 5ed)

This has changed a little. More in that they went back and lookde at talents and skills and reorganized them and gave better definitions of what skills did while adding skills and getting rid of the holdovers from the original adaptation of skills.

Incorrect. 4th ed was marketed both as "Champions" (the "big blue book") and as a stand-alone Hero-system book. In fact, the BBB was split along the lines of system and setting.

Yes, I'd forgotten about that. My bad.

 

[TheBard]

Champions Math, and Tangents

For folks reading this thread who are more familiar with D&D, I have a comment on HERO SYSTEM, particularly Champions. I'm headed off on a tanget here, as you can see...

Hero has a "bad" rep in many people's minds as an overly complex system. While the system can ask you to do math as complex as 65 * 1.25 (at most) it's all done as part of character creation. Once that is out of the way it is no more complex than D&D to play.

Part of the problem is perception. D&D is all about getting there (level progression). You start off as a weenie and claw and scratch yourself to the top. In most Hero genre games you start out as a "professional" -- as far as "scope of power" goes we are talking about 8th level + (depending upon the genre).

So, when you are talking about character creation, I usually tell folks more familiar with games like D&D that making up a Champions character is as involved as making up a 10th level character from scratch, including buying equipment, etc.

Hero takes a while to "grok." But once you have the metarules in your head, it is suprisingly easy to grasp (and the current rulebook makes a convenient blunt instrument as well.) What I really like about this edition is the efforts made to get across those guiding princibles to the players, themes like:

5 pts = 1d6 of a "power"

All success/failure rolls are made on 3d6

There's A LOT of "under the hood" talk from the author. TONS of examples and suggestions, while the heft of the tome may seem daunting, there's a reason that folks kept playing this game for _10 YEARS_ while it was out of print, and another reason it is flying off the shelves now.

As others have said, if you can concieve it, you can build it with HERO SYSTEM.

Period.

And all, you'll really ever need is that (giant) black book.

Moreover, a new crop of HERO-evangelists is organizing to help you learn. Ask your game store owner about this, or go to the website (www.herogames.com), click and ASK for a demo.

I _believe_ Benjamin Seeman (benseeman@herogames.com ) is handling this right now.

The site updates every Friday and has a very active discussion board for HERO Q/A hosted by the author (Steve Long) himself.

 

[Greatwyrm]

Can anybody tell me how Fantasy Hero stacks up against D&D like the Champions vs. Gurps discussion above?

 

[Teflon Billy]

It's great that nearly all of the comments here have been positive. I'm one of the above-mentioned people that played Champions for the ten years it was out of print.

I will buy the new edition the very moment it hits the shelves here in Canada.

I am veryrelieved that all of my old campaign material will still be of use

I think the folks above have made possibly the best comparison of GURPS and Hero System I've ever heard. I have nothing to add to it.

 

[Teflon Billy]

Can anybody tell me how Fantasy Hero stacks up against D&D like the Champions vs. Gurps discussion above?

For the Hero system itself? Like apples and oranges.

It's hard to compare them as they have so litle in common. Hero is point based, 3E is level based.

Hero is a toolkit for making any kind of character you want. 3E is a "template" system for want of better word.

Fantasy Hero is really just more of the same.

I will say this though...I thought Fantasy Hero was the system with which to replicate Ars Magica (with a little tweaking of XP to be based on seasons). Super flexible and high powered.

 

[TheBard]

Can anybody tell me how Fantasy Hero stacks up against D&D like the Champions vs. Gurps discussion above?

First, the current version of Fantasy Hero was written for 4th ed. While it would be very helpful, a new version is not planned until 2003, I think.

The big difference is that Hero is classless and settingless. The GM will have to do some work to come up with guidelines (5th ed. give some idea how to do this, but it does not offer much guidence on genre design. (That's what books like Champions, Star Hero and Fantasy Hero will do.)

d20, and well most other games enforce their genre through the game system. Wizards who wear armor often fail to cast magic, rogues can leap out of the way of the dragon; the fighter class does not learn magic, etc. While d20 is much more flexible than the earlier editions, it still has a rigid structure -- you can multiclass, but essentially you go down one path, then switch to another, etc.

HERO doesn’t work that way and I advise folks who play it not to try to make it work like other rulesystems. It will not always be so cut and dried as with d20 - but _revel_ in it rather than try to fight against the game system.

Realize that while d20 is a great game, there are some things that HERO does better. For the most part, you can play what you want right out of the chute, no compromising no digging for a prestige class, or making one up -- want to have a fighter type that can cast spells? Easy. A "mage" that can swing a sword and wear plate armor. Okay. The lack of pre-defined classes and their progression will take some getting used to, but it will offer some new opportunities.

 

[Psion]

Hero has a "bad" rep in many people's minds as an overly complex system. While the system can ask you to do math as complex as 65 * 1.25 (at most) it's all done as part of character creation. Once that is out of the way it is no more complex than D&D to play.

I am a huge HERO fan, and I have got to say:
That is not a dispensible consideration.

I ran a little fantasy/ninja hero sort of thing. I quickly found that the math weak tended to avoid spells like the plague simply because they didn't understand what was going on.

Though I love HERO for what it can do, there is a lot to be said for simpler systems that allow less math-minded players to get a grasp on their characters.

That said, in the right group, HERO is a marvel to behold.

Part of the problem is perception. D&D is all about getting there (level progression). You start off as a weenie and claw and scratch yourself to the top. In most Hero genre games you start out as a "professional" -- as far as "scope of power" goes we are talking about 8th level + (depending upon the genre).

I have started precisely 1 3e game at first level. All other games have started at higher level.