On DEFENSES...
If the GM decides the balance between transform attacks and normal damage attacks is not right, he certainly can for his game apply "availability issues" for acquiring power defense.
That is one way of starting to address the problem i am pointing out.
There is absolutely nothing stopping me from IN HERO buying 5 points of power defense for my fighter and writing into the description of his background an "extraplanar ancestor" as justification for me being able to purchase the power not as a spell but rather as a birthright. Nothing that is, except the Gm declaring that the cost system is wrong and limiting it for balance.
Would this be banned in your fantasy hero game as an option for a PC at any and all levels? Would this perhaps be a case which highlights the HERO "we can build whatever you want/let's not limit creativity" strength?
There is nothing stopping me in HERO buying at character outset a magical ring passed won from daddy with 5 power defense. Nothing beyond the Gm saying "i wont allow that. it will wreck balance to allow things to be purchased at the silly costs HERO gave things."
Would this be banned in your fantasy hero game as an option for a PC at any and all levels? Would this perhaps be a case which highlights the HERO "we can build whatever you want/let's not limit creativity" strength?
This solution is however not mandated in the rules. It also tends to run against the oft-shouted "we can build whatever you want" aspect for HERO as the Gm would have to disallow even character concepts as well in genre as those mentioned above to create this rule fix.
For instance, in the game i ran, it was not infrequent for mages with "mage armor" to build into them a small amount of power defense and mental defense for frankly dirt cheap cost because it would fit ewasily within the concept for magic shield and would work wonders for stopping those attacks or at least blunting them. When they designed these mage armor spells to work on others, they did not suddenly go 'well gee, since the cost system is broken i should remove these effects."
I do not dispute that the Gm has several rules changes and campaign setting mechanisms for FIXING the problem. Heck one person mentioned just cutting in half all the costs for transforms or mind effects, i think he described it as giving everyone a disad.
I am just describing what the problem is.
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Again, my point was and remains, in HERO4 (i will try and use HERO5 too but since it is in the mail, i am limited.) the cost balance due to cost for an EFFECTIVE attack (using a normal 10s everywhere commoner as an example) between normal straight damage effects (ranged EB for simplicity) and EFFECT based attacks (Polymorph and Paralysis (say hold person for specifics))
favor heavily the former over the latter two.
Since in HERO cost is the main overriding limitation, every aspect of the character is bought with one limited pool of points, this has the result in the system favoring, promoting, and encouraging just blast 'em powers over the others.
By the numbers... for 45 AP... 30 real points using a skill roll lim.
Firebolt doing 9d6 Eb does average of 31 stun and 9 body. Against our commoner this will knock him to -9 stun on average, Even a low roll would still likely knock him out, needing only 23 pts on 9 dice. it would con stun him on a roll of at least 13, costing him the next action. Thats one hit. on a roll just a little above average so he goes to beyond -10, he will be out for a while. (Extending: on a normal hit, the commoner has to spend his next action recovering from stunned and the action following recovering lost stun 4 and will normally wake up 4 actions later or 2 full turns.)
Poly Into Carp would be 3d6 major transform. With an average of 11 body this would require two hits on average to do the polymorph. On a low roll, three would be required. There is NO CHANCE for even on the luckiest roll for one shot to work. (Extending: The victim will be fully active for at least one more phase, while the poly guy waits to do his second attack, and might even get a third before popping into a fish. At that point, barring intervention, he is out.)
Mind Control at 9d6 does not have any reasonable chance of meeting the 40 needed to cause someone to freeze dead still in combat while being attacked. if we talk REAL points, we get 12 d6 at 60 AP with -1/2 for one command for 43 pts. This has a bigger end cost and if a bigger skill roll penalty. hitting a commoner, this effect would NORMALLY freeze him, getting 42 for 2 over the 40 needed. On the commoner's next action he gets a free roll needing an 11 on 3d6 to break free and act normally. If he fails that roll, on one turn later he gets another roll at 3d6 needing a 10 or better. odds seriously favor one of these rolls getting made. For every 5 points above normal 40, the roll is penalized by 1, so with a good roll, you might actually be able to hold him for longer periods. note that this attack requires you to be able to converse with the enemy. he must understand the command.
So it seems clear that in terms of disabling the commoner in a fight, the better tactical choice is the firebolt. poly takes more shots minimum. Hold takes more end, tougher skill roll and has a more likely failure chance given the mutliple rolls and only a 3 point margin between average and failure to meet the threshold. Hold also requires understanding on the enemies part to work at all.
Note that this time i stayed with same real cost for the powers. Obviously by buying more powerful powers for the latter two, they could get into the same tactical level as the other, but unless the extra points are providied they have other lacks.
In terms of defenses, we have the following:
The cost for completely stopping damage from the firebolt is 52 points. the cost for stopping its average result cold is 31.
The cost for completely stopping the tranform is 18 points. The cost for completely stopping its average result is 11.
The cost for completely stopping the hold is 33. The cost for completely stopping its average result is 5.
While indeed there will be situational benefits which sometimes occur from not knocking someone out as opposed to turning them into a turtle or merely paralyzing them, these, and your experience may vary, wont come close OVERALL to the direct tactical gains of one shot vs two-three shot or the much greater chance of failure (worse skill roll, closer to breakpoint, multiple counter rolls easiy to make) in any game i have ever seen in play.
Once you add in the clear cost advantage of the defenses favoring the Eb as an offense,
Now when you move beyond the notion of attacking commoners to attacking creatures or heroes, the defense cost issue becomes more significant. at this point it becomes a sort of rock-paper-scissors as to whether the crature has high body or high stun or highnego or what not. The Gm can skew any opponent to be vulnerable to either or relatively invulnerable to either. buying body at 2-1 will significantly impede the transform (each point of body raising by 2 the needed value). buying CON at 2-1 will significantly impede the EB (with ED, higher con for constun, etc.) while buying more EGO will significantly impede the hold (1 for 1 increasing the threshold which the hold was already perilously near.)
Clearly the Gm can fix this imbalance a number of ways.
He can rule out the defenses for the hold and the transform. this addresses that part of the problem and still leaves the tactical issues.
He can up the defnenses commonly applied against the EB, maybe even providing only defenses for that available for no cost to the character.
He can admit the issue and address it directly by altering the cost of those other two.
He can give every creature a disad to make those other two more powerful.
i am certain there are a number of other options by which he can address the problem and for his game bring these three common fantasy effects into parity as attack options. He can try and make evocation, enchantment and transmutation all viable attacks with costs reflecting potency, which is what the HERo system is all about, cost reflecting benefit.
However, doing any of these is, in effect, recognizing the problem exists.
. If I order from you, do you think I could get the book real fast here?
