[OT] [OA] Japanese Traditions Questions

[Mindcrime]

It may be totally different in China and Southeast Asia, but I am quite sure in many north Asian countries, Korea included, Red is not a 'lucky color'.

Red is the luckiest color in Chinese culture. Yellow is damn lucky too, usually representative of the emperor. Everything is red and yellow, yellow and red. Red envelopes are how you deliver money (or bribes, depending how you look at) to people around new year's time, at wedding receptions, on birthdays, etc.

Chris

 

[Gez]

Thanks everyone !

About the little debate on accuracy -- as I said, that is not that important. It's fantasy. We don't try to model something that was really true to a real world culture.

But just to give an overall flavor, with little tidbits and snippets. For a pseudo-medieval-european-but-with-pantheons setting, we don't need to ask what was a typical's peasant clothing like, how did nobles loan money topay their mercenaries, or how a wedding ceremony was like.

Well, anyway, thanks everyone again for your help.

 

[WayneLigon]

As posted before the GURPS material is very extensive. Another source you might want to check for a Japanese background is Sengoku.

Sengoku (Gold Rush Games)

I'd like to second that. It's a very interesting book, set before the period of Feudal Japan that most people are familiar with. It's very interesting to note the change in customs.

 

[Graf]

I -think- I understand what you were getting at better.

No, I'm curious about why there seem to be a fascination with the humdrum details about peripheral parts of a campaign, when these things never seem to matter for the core parts.

So in your world you've never given some place an interesting custom or or even a slighly different culture?? Everywhere just has a "king", and he give you "the quest" and pays you in "gold pieces" and there's an "inn" with an "innkeeper" and you get "food" and maybe "ale". Are your games really nothing more than a numbers crunching exerices with hit points, attack bonuses and saving throws being the only things that change?
(I have difficulty believing this but of course it's possible.)

Just as the basic D&D game isn't based on historical nitty-gritty, D&D in foreign lands shouldn't be based on foreign historical nitty-gritty.

This statement could sound like "I don't place games that focus on 'nitty-gritty', therefor I think all D&D games don't focus on 'nitty-gritty'. If you don't focus on 'nitty-gritty' in every one of your campaigns, all the time, you should never consider it."

D&D's holy grail is usually "have fun" and not "congruity comes before all else".

 

[Graf]

And now for something on topic

During the Tokugawa (Aka "closed country") period everything was regulated very tightly. Pesants were forbidden to leave where the were born, etc. The government insituted a program whereby all families were grouped into groups of five. Each family's house was visible from at least one other member of the groups.

It was against the law to close your doors (remeber that in traditional houses much of the walls of the building were actually doors). So effectively your neighbors could see into your house at all times (or at least until you went to bed).

If any household was found to broken a law (sedition, abandoning their property, etc) all the familes were punished equally. People were constantly spying on your neighbors,... sort of like a traditional version of Big Brother.

I've read that some sociologists think that the strong tendency of Japanese to avoid reacting to public bad behavior comes from this time period. Basically people got into the habit of ignoring their neighbors daily lives for social convenience. This continued as people packed into urban areas and were exposed constantly to what happened around them.

 

[hong]

Also, according to Slayers, people are characterised by the following:

- big eyes, small mouths

- huge sweatdrops appear next to their heads whenever they say anything silly or they see or hear someone else being silly

- mullets are back in fashion, and in a big way

 

[hong]

So in your world you've never given some place an interesting custom or or even a slighly different culture??

What on earth are you rabbiting on about?

Everywhere just has a "king", and he give you "the quest" and pays you in "gold pieces" and there's an "inn" with an "innkeeper" and you get "food" and maybe "ale".

Why, yes.

Fantasy roleplaying is, at its heart, a way for the participants to recreate the hero's journey, as described by Joseph Campbell (among others). This journey, or "quest" might be a more familiar term, can be summed up as: the hero ventures forth from a world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man.

Under such a paradigm, fantasy races such as elves, orcs, demons and so forth represent different facets of the human psyche. The conflict between different races represents the internal conflict within ourselves, between our creative and destructive halves. The alternate paradigm, where races are cultural rather than psychological metaphors, is diagnostic of science fiction. (Thus I classify a setting like Planescape as science fiction, albeit with swords rather than spaceships. It's a fair cop, since Star Wars is often characterised as fantasy with blasters.)

Under this paradigm, moreover, there really is no need for multiple cultures to muddy the waters. A setting like Rokugan, for instance, is entirely self-contained. It doesn't need gaijin to make things interesting, not when you already have a richly detailed clan history, plus demons, dragons and all the other archetypal creatures of Japanese myth. Which aren't really that different to the archetypal creatures of Western myth, when you look deeply enough.

This isn't to say that having regional variations on one underlying culture doesn't make for good gaming. But mixing character types from multiple sources can just as easily 1) make for a bland chickenpot gameworld, where variety is pursued for variety's sake; and 2) introduce uncomfortable real-world issues to the gaming table, since all fantasy cultures will usually be based on real-world counterparts, and it's all too easy to start translating real-life prejudices into the game world. In a world where good versus evil is a dominant theme (see previous), this just results in muddying the waters in terms of identifying what exactly is meant by "good" and "evil". This is as undesirable a result as having spaceships and blasters in a game that's meant to be swords-and-sorcery.

Are your games really nothing more than a numbers crunching exerices with WANGER

I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? Please continue. I believe you were saying something about "number crunching exercises [sic]".


Hong "bad motherbleeper" Ooi

 

[Graf]

My sig should read: Sometimes a thread was not meant to be.

What on earth are you rabbiting on about?

Hit a sore point? Didn't mean to, not really. But since you want to jump down the rabbit hole I'll follow.

Why, yes.

WANGER WANGER Quoting WANGER WANGER unrelated WANGER WANGER Joseph Campbell WANGER WANGER makes me seemWANGER erudite. WANGER WANGER WANGER WANGER

Illuminating.

Under this paradigm, moreover, there really is no need for multiple cultures to muddy the waters.

Ahhh. And everyone plays with your paradigm. Naturally.

And under your paradigm you want there to be a a pure unsullied culture? Something historically acurate and unblemished by fantasy or mixing with other cultures.... [Of course cultures are naturally pure, they never interact with or influence each other. Mixing cultures? Why that's just disgusting! I won't hear another word of it! Not in my house!]

BTW Maybe you should check your prior posts.... you're on the against "historical nit-picking" side of the imaginary line you're industriously trying to draw.

It doesn't need gaijin to make things interesting, not when you already have a richly detailed clan history, plus demons, dragons and all the other archetypal creatures of Japanese myth.

So why does the game have Westerners in it then?
Boy those people who play members of the Unicorn Clan sure are sullying the game for the rest of us. (Or did those pages fall out of your book?)

introduce uncomfortable real-world issues to the gaming table, since all fantasy cultures will usually be based on real-world counterparts, and it's all too easy to start translating real-life prejudices into the game world.

This seems like what's really upseting you. You're being unclear so it's hard to pin down but this is the closest thing to a consistent complaint I've seen in all the posts you've made.
Does the idea of people playing games they think of as asian-influenced bother you?
I'm also curious why do you presume that people have prejudices (real-life or otherwise)?

I'm sorry.

How come?

Did I break your concentration?

Nope.

Please continue.

(see above)

Graf "curiouser and curiouser" Douglas

 

[hong]

Re: My sig should read: Sometimes a thread was not meant to be.

Hit a sore point?

You can think that if you want to.

Didn't mean to, not really. But since you want to jump down the rabbit hole I'll follow.

If you want.

Illuminating.

You have the words, but not the rhythm.

Ahhh. And everyone plays with your paradigm. Naturally.

Well, I do.

And under your paradigm you want there to be a a pure unsullied culture?

Define "unsullied".

Something historically acurate

You're rabbiting on again.

and unblemished by fantasy

Oh, I wouldn't know about that. There's always room for blemishes caused by the nipple clamps of ultimate pain!! Now THAT'S fantasy.

or mixing with other cultures....

Why bother?

[Of course cultures are naturally pure, they never interact with or influence each other.

If I want to play around with cultural archetypes or stereotypes, I can watch Star Trek.

Mixing cultures? Why that's just disgusting! I won't hear another word of it! Not in my house!]

Too! Many! Exclamation! Marks!

BTW Maybe you should check your prior posts.... you're on the against "historical nit-picking" side of the imaginary line you're industriously trying to draw.

You seem highly confused. You shouldn't try your hand at wanger spam unless you're highly trained.

So why does the game have Westerners in it then?

It doesn't, dearie. The dominant themes of L5R have to do with inter-clan conflict and war against the Shadowlands, neither of which involve pesky Westerners at all.

Boy those people who play members of the Unicorn Clan

Who have been integrated into Rokugani society and are under the Emperor's protection, and thus are no longer considered outsiders (although they may be thought of as "uncultured"). Please to try harder.

sure are sullying the game for the rest of us.

Who is "us", homeboy?

(Or did those pages fall out of your book?)

No. Did some pages magically fall into yours?

This seems like what's really upseting you. You're being unclear so it's hard to pin down but this is the closest thing to a consistent complaint I've seen in all the posts you've made.

I would hate to have one consistent complaint in all the 5,000+ posts I've made.

Does the idea of people playing games they think of as asian-influenced bother you?

Please to stop chasing your own tail. You shouldn't play with wanger spam if it has any chance of affecting your own thought processes. There's nothing worse than unintended wangering. Especially of oneself.

I'm also curious why do you presume that people have prejudices (real-life or otherwise)?

Because I'm prejudiced.

How come?

Ah, you have been learning. That is good to see, young grasshopper.

Nope.

But you have far yet to go, young dung beetle.

(see above)

You'll have to do better than that, donkey dick.

Graf "curiouser and curiouser" Douglas

My work here is done.

 

[Graf]

Wow. Reduced to whiny one-liners and name calling by one good wangering. I'm, well, disappointed in you hong. I just expected a bit better that's all.

Still you're not through! You can practice a bit, maybe go back down to the bush leagues and jump kiddies on the Pokemon boards for a while. Then when you get back into fighting shape, come back here and we'll do this again. I promise to go easier on you next time.

Merry Christmas,
Graf

PS Do find out what gaijin means sometime.
(hint: start with its original form gaikokujin; it should be in most entry level Japanese text books in the bookstore).