Other Game Systems

[igavskoga]

Just a quick observation here, as pretty much all the rules sets I would've suggested have been mentioned-

If you are going to look into the Unisystem branch of games I would REALLY recommend downloading the free Witchcraft PDF they offer to look at the rules system before you make a purchase. Why? Literally every single person I've ever met has either absolutely loved Unisystem or loathes it completely. This is one of those systems where I have yet to meet a middle ground. It is my opinion that if you are going to actually lay down some hard earned cash on a book you should at least preview it first.

I love Eden, don't get me wrong, but I personally fall into the dislike category. IMO, it is Rules Lazy, not Rules Lite. 90% of my attempts on the Eden forums to get answers to rules questions were essentially met with "Make it up" and "Do what you want" (this from developers!). That is all well and good, but IMO you need a baseline to go from, and that baseline is not provided in many parts. I've found the rules more often vague and contradictory than clear and concise. Honestly, I didn't pay 30 bucks to make up all of my own rules. I paid 30 bucks for them to make up the rules. I can make up my own rules for free.

Coming from forums like ENworld and the d20 rules set with a clear and hard baseline of rules that I can examine, debate over, ask questions about (and get answers!) and see the ways in which I can tweak above or below that base - or ignore things or add them in completely.... it was a pretty big culture shock. This coming from a guy who is constantly reading and tinkering with new rules system, and runs with players who do the same.

I'm not trying to start an "Its good! No its not!" back and forth here, believe me. Plenty of people love the system and that's great, I can see the appeal. Its not my cup of tea, that's fine also. However, with a free PDF available in which you can get a feel for the core mechanics it really behooves you to go and check it out before paying cash on something. That goes with any of the systems mentioned, really -- flip through before you buy.

 

[ScardPtori]

I am in a very similar situation in that I have played primarily D&D for about 25 years now, (I've dabbled in a few other systems, but nothing long term) but have started looking for something different. So as I have been looking around for something new, the Savage Worlds system really appealed to me and I've heard lots of good things about it. A few weeks ago I picked up the core rule book and read through it. There are some things that may be too slimmed down for my taste, but overall I am still really interested in it and it really seems to lend itself to Role Playing as opposed to primarily combat oriented advancement.

But the main point I wanted to add to what has already been said is that you can actually go download a pdf of the "Test Drive" rules that gives you enough of the system to create some characters and run through a few combats to see how you like it.

http://www.peginc.com/Games/Games.htm

If you follow that link and scroll down towards the bottom of the page, you will see a link labelled "Test Drive Rules 4.0"

Give it a try and see what you think.

 

[Kafkonia]

Let me throw out another endorsement of GURPS. It handles generic in a way that d20 (being tied to the D&D paradigm) doesn't. If you want to play covert ops, martial arts action, cyberpunk, horror, sci-fi... It's got you covered. The one knock against the system has generally been that it falls apart at higher levels; I've not had the chance to play 4e but I believe they took some strides towards balancing that out.

Also, they have some of the best sourcebooks you can find -- and many of them can be had for under $10 from www.warehouse23.com. (Add in free shipping to Canada on orders over $80.00 and I'm already a repeat customer.) And these sourcebooks are useful even if you don't play GURPS -- there's a lot of great material, and the crunch is generally in real world numbers, readily adaptable.

The version of GURPS Fantasy that came out for 3rd ed left a lot of fans cold, because it was emphatically not a generic fantasy book -- it was almost entirely devoted to a very distinct and flavourful world. That world now has its own hardback, GURPS Banestorm, and may be worth checking out for anyone interested in alternate worlds.

On top of all of that, they've had some very interesting licenses over the years -- Andre Norton's Witch World, David Brin's Uplift, The Prisoner(!), and Wild Cards have all had sourcebooks; Discworld and Hellboy have both been "powered by GURPS" (standalone books with the core system included); and they have even licensed adaptations of Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Traveller, Conspiracy X, and the Call of Cthulhu/cyberpunk crossover Cthulhupunk.

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On the opposite end of the power-spectrum for generic systems is the Hero System. Originally designed for the superhero RPG Champions, the system is generally seen to work better at high levels than low ones. With some of the crunchiest mechanics I've ever seen, it's perfect for a certain type of gamer -- and an unending headache for others. If you like arithmetic, or want to have almost complete control over powers and/or spells available ,definitely give the system a look.

In addition to Champions, books have been released for martial arts (Ninja Hero), science fiction (Star Hero), horror (Horror Hero), fantasy (Fantasy Hero), pulp (Pulp Hero)... you get the idea, right? Not all of these books have been put out for the newest edition, however, and the bread and butter for the system is Champions.

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Closer to home, Masque of the Red Death from Art Haus is a d20 game, but it is set in a Victorian Earth and really only retains the mechanics, not the feel, of d20 (ie, the classes are all different, the power level is different, magic has a different feel, etc.) The only downside is that you really need several more books to run it (in addition to needing the PHB/DMG like all d20 books, some mechanics are covered in the Ravenloft PHB as well.) But I fell in love with the setting so much that I went out and bought the Ravenloft PHB (and DMG!) off eBay.

 

[Jhaelen]

What do you mean? There are dozens if not hundreds of different RPG systems out there currently in print. A few off the top of my head:

Unisystem (All Flesh Must Be Eaten, Buffy)
HARP
Warhammer
D6
Runequest (the new Mongoose edition)
Burning Wheel
Savage Worlds
FATE
Iron Gauntlets
Weapons of the Gods
Unknown Armies
Ars Magica
Shadowrun
The Riddle of Steel
Lord of the Rings (this one is out of print, but just barely)
Serenity
Chronicles of Ramlar
HERO
Arrowflight
Pendragon

Nice list, contains most of my favorites

Ars Magica is clearly my personal all-time favorite - very different approach, extremely well researched supplements.

RuneQuest (and by extension its derivates: Call of Cthulhu, Pendragon, Stormbringer) gets my vote for the best game mechanics, imho, the best compromise between realism and playability.

Mage from the World of Darkness setting gets a honorable mention as my favorite 'non-medieval-fantasy' setting for it's flexible magic system (and of course because the campaign background stems from Ars Magica ).

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Nod to many of the games mentioned like SW, GURPS, Champions, etc.

I want to mention Robin Laws' The Esoterrorists. Wow. Good stuff. It's rules light, it makes sense, and I'm reading it right now.

 

[scourger]

Another nod to Savage Worlds.

 

[grodog]

So what are some other, non-d20 (probably even non-OGL) systems that are out there? What are they basically about? And which are the best?

Ars Magica. Blue Planet. Call of Cthulhu. Dune.

 

[Professor Phobos]

Isn't Dune staggeringly, impossibly, incredibly out of print?

I second the recommendation of looking at the Witchcraft PDF- though I don't actually like the default Unisystem rules. It's Cinematic that earned my undying devotion.

 

[grodog]

Hmmm, now that you've added more details...

Basically what's I'm looking for is (in no particular order):
1. Something that's in print; I don't want a PDF rule book
2. More or less rules-lite (in comparison to D&D 3.5)
3. Something that would be affordable to get started with (don't want to have to buy a lot of books, just in case it doesn't catch on with my group)
4. Not minis centric
5. A system that can accomodate different genres (the pure fantasy of D&D is getting old)

...let me revise my reply from

Ars Magica. Blue Planet. Call of Cthulhu. Dune.

to Call of Cthulhu (current edition is 6th IIRC, but the mechanics are mostly the same throughout the various editions). Its system emulates historical to contemporary to far-futures genres well, it's easy to play and get into (you only need 1 book), and you have a large body of literary inspiration to draw from (HPL and successors, in a variety of styles). You also have Chaosium's early box sets and Pagan Publishing's mature CoC efforts, which together number among the best published adventures/campaigns/supplements in the history rpgs.

I'm not a fan of generic rules systems like GURPS, so on that front I think you're limiting yourself quite a bit, since there are a number of rules systems that can easily be adapted to different settings, genres, eras, etc. (including D&D in any of its editions), but it sounds like you definitely want to get away from the d20/OGL mechanics. Therefore, other games I think you should consider checking out to get a strong change of pace from D&D: Ars Magica (5th edition is the current one), Blue Planet (1st or 2nd edition, there was no d20/OGL version), Fading Suns (2nd edition beats the d20/OGL version), Paranoia (1st or 2nd edition beats the d20/OGL version), RuneQuest (2nd edition beats the OGL/d20 version), Star Wars (WEG 2nd edition revised/expanded beats the d20/OGL version).

 

[grodog]

Isn't Dune staggeringly, impossibly, incredibly out of print?

Yes, hence my 2nd reply above