"Out of the Frying Pan"- Book IV - Into the Fire [STORY HOUR COMPLETED - 12/25/06]

[mmu1]

As the campaign is both exceedingly difficult and many classes limited in some way by house rules or campaign design (no slight intended nemmerle) its IMO a natural choise.

Clerics simply offer the best survival chance in nemmerles game. Fighters/Rogues and their ilk are limited by the low magic approach. A problem that grows worse with increasing levels.

Mages (if Martin is a typical mage) are very limited in the new spell gaining department and find it hard to cope with the frequent very deadly fights.

Playing a character who can fight decently (to cope with many battles) and have its own inherent magic (to comepensate for low magic in general) is just plain good sense.

As someone who played a fighter/rogue in the campaign for a few months, I'd tend to agree. Not sure whether that was what motivated everyone who plays a Cleric in that game (don't think it was) but it's basically the only class (well, druids, too) almost not affected by the various restrictions.

Fighters and rogues end up being rather underpowered relative to typical D&D because of lack of magical equipment, mages learn spells very slowly (and need to keep track of many spell components that are generally taken for granted in most games), and Bards are basically unplayable as long as Ratchis is in the party - unless someone plays a Bard that doesn't use any Enchantment abilities.

 

[Manzanita]

who did you play, mmu1? Derek? He was a ranger rogue.

You'd think maybe a monk would be a good choice given the paucity of equipment. I was thinking we'd see that hobgoblin monk again. Maybe we will. Why are bards useless w/Ratchis around? They make too much noise? And hey - Martin's got plenty of spells w/his new handy (RAT-BASTARD!!) spell book.

In any case, I guess that answers my question. It looks like we'll have another cleric of Nephrys in the party. Welcome Mercy!

 

[mofos21]

Fighters/Rogues and their ilk are limited by the low magic approach.

As someone who played a fighter/rogue in the campaign for a few months, I'd tend to agree.

I, on the other hand, disagree. While it wasn't in Nemm's game, I did play a rogue in an Aquerra campaign (run by Rastfar on these boards). And I did not feel limited in the slightest (except by my character's short attention span ) or underpowered. He was an effective fighter and had a host of skills he was quite proficient at, which helped the group to continue on at times.

Character survival/effectiveness has more to do with how the character responds to particular situations, not just having access to spells (or magical equipment) and being an adequate fighter, IMO.

Fighters and rogues end up being rather underpowered relative to typical D&D because of lack of magical equipment

If you took a fighter or a rogue from an Aquerra campaign and plopped them in the middle of a typical D&D campagin for their level, then yes, they would be quite underpowered. However, the whole Aquerra setting is low-magic. It's not just a restriction placed on the PCs. I would wager that the ratio of PC magic to world magic in both Aquerra and "typical" D&D is similar.

who did you play, mmu1?

He played a character who is yet to be introduced.

 

[Ciaran]

As someone who played a fighter/rogue in the campaign for a few months, I'd tend to agree.

[snip]

Fighters and rogues end up being rather underpowered relative to typical D&D because of lack of magical equipment

I have to say that I got to play your character in a few combats after you left the game, and he was scarily effective. And that was primarily against undead, where his Sneak Attack didn't come into play.

- Eric

 

[monboesen]

Character survival/effectiveness has more to do with how the character responds to particular situations, not just having access to spells (or magical equipment) and being an adequate fighter, IMO.

The character levels and the type of foes are also an important factor in this regard.

In the last game I actually played in (rather than dm) I was a dwarf cleric. A quiet unassuming bloke who happily let his fighter/ranger/paladin friends handle most combat.

He didn't have great stats or any magical equipment. The campaign was very similar to nemmerles in the approach to magic, both spells and items.

This was about at the time 3ed came out and we quicly switched from a homebrew 2ed to 3ed. I think we started out in 3ed rules at 3rd level. At this relative low level Thrain was somewhat weak. He could heal, he could take a hit well. But overall he did not contribute much to the groups succes.

When we ended the campaign he was level 9. At this point the entire group (6 players) was entirely dependent on my dwarf cleric and the human wizard. Without them they could never have won the fights at that level. Neither would they have succeded in revealing plots or finding the true enemies (though a face man could have done some of that).

This was IMO only going to get worse as we climbed in levels. At high levels, fighting high level worthy magical opponents (dragons, demons, wicked wizards and so on) you won't win without magic.

The less magic a campign includes, the more powerful those that have it becomes. Of course fighters will be powerful. Until they face a foe with dmr they cant cut through. Or a flying enemy with powerful ranged attacks. Or a demon with a myriad of spell like abilities (and often both of the above as well) that requires will saves.

 

[Dawn]

Sweet! Another chapter!

 

[mmu1]

who did you play, mmu1? Derek? He was a ranger rogue.

You'd think maybe a monk would be a good choice given the paucity of equipment. I was thinking we'd see that hobgoblin monk again. Maybe we will. Why are bards useless w/Ratchis around? They make too much noise? And hey - Martin's got plenty of spells w/his new handy (RAT-BASTARD!!) spell book.

In any case, I guess that answers my question. It looks like we'll have another cleric of Nephrys in the party. Welcome Mercy!

Ratchis has serious problems with anything that "interferes with free will" because of his religious beliefs, which means every time a Bard used something Enchantment based to manipulate someone, there'd have been an in-character argument and/or fight, which makes the class an impractical choice. Not really a gameworld issue, more of a campaign one.

As for Logan's effectiveness... Anything I bring up at this point will just sound like complaining, so let me limit it to saying I disagree, and only point out that that, for example, Gunthar (who would get his clock cleaned by either Kazrack or Ratchis) had better stats, better equipment, and was higher level than Logan. I know it's how Nemmerle runs the game, you don't get instant benefits for having a glowing "PC" sign over your head - which is a legitimate DMing style, but I found it unsatisfying after a while.

 

[monboesen]

You'd think maybe a monk would be a good choice given the paucity of equipment

Actually after checking up on Ratchis and Kazracks ability scores and the Aquerra sites wealth of martial arts feats I think either of them would have done great as a monk.

Without much magic (and at times even decent mundane) equipment the monk becomes a very viable choise. But I think they might be restricted a lot in Aquerra by training options and the need of finding the right master to teach them what they want to learn.

 

[Manzanita]

bump

Looking forward to the next installment and meeting some new PCs!

 

[el-remmen]

I've started on the next installment, but honestly I am finding it very difficult because it is mostly metting people and planning - and while I find it a very rich part of what goes on in the game and I look forward to capturing that aspect of it, it is a lot harder to actually write than combat scenes - and there is the beginning of one of those as well at the very end of the session, which I am thinking is going to be at least three parts in the writing. . .

In the meantime, some Out of the Frying Pan Trivia!

Three questions from each book, plus a bonus question. . .

Book I

Where was the party heading when they met Ratchis?


Why were they headed there?


What kind of soldiers had taken Jeremy and Kamir captive?


Book II


Name three people who came to Gothanius in the same group as Martin the Green.


What was Mozek Steamwind's official title among the Garven Gnomes?


Which god did the paladin captive of the Circle of the Thorn worship?


Book III


Who are the Shepherds?


Name the two gnomes that temporarily joined up with the party in the Pit of Bones?


Where is Hurgun's Maze?


Bonus Question

What is the Ogre Scar?