Outrage at prices

[WildWeasel]

Aren't you judging the people who feel like the higher prices are a kick to the gut? There is nothing wrong with complaining about higher prices. And, while you may consider these books "high end" products, there is a direct correlation between "high end" prices and "low end" prices. High "premium" prices usually directly correlate to higher low end prices. Four years ago, the "premium" price of a RPG book was between 40-50 dollars and the low to average price of a RPG book was 15-25 dollars. Now, we have a premium market of $100 and the low to average price of a RPG book is 30-50 dollars.

Except there are still plenty of sub-$30 material out there. Third-party d20 (heck, even Malhavoc is still putting out $20 sourcebooks), C&C, Burning Wheel, lots of other indie RPGs. And that's not even touching the PDF market. Is the sub-$30 market being udnerserved? Quite possibly...but then you have to ask why that is.

 

[Berandor]

Without reading this thread, I'll have to say it's because it's in the nature of man to get riled up about what you are emotionally attached to, and it's the nature of geekdom to amplify this tendency tenfold. So you'll have praise-gushing fanboys and raped childhoods hand in hand whenever you step into geekdom, especially on the net.

The day nobody starts a new online petition for some perceived slight is the day the internet will collapse from pure shock, leaving behind only fond memories of days gone by and now useless passwords to adult sites.

 

[Belen]

Except there are still plenty of sub-$30 material out there. Third-party d20 (heck, even Malhavoc is still putting out $20 sourcebooks), C&C, Burning Wheel, lots of other indie RPGs. And that's not even touching the PDF market. Is the sub-$30 market being udnerserved? Quite possibly...but then you have to ask why that is.

Really? If there is so much lower end product that exists, then why is it not making it to shelves of the stores?

And I am ignoring the PDF market. A kid who knows nothing about D&D is not going to go out and use the PDF market. PDFs are not a substitute for a good book and they are catered exclusively to the existing messageboard audience.

Heck, even Chris Pramas said that the market was better served by smaller, cheaper products.

 

[WildWeasel]

Really? If there is so much lower end product that exists, then why is it not making it to shelves of the stores?

It is. Maybe not the shelves of your store, but I've picked up plenty of sub-$30 material at my FLGS. Perhaps you should ask your store owners why they don't carry such products.

And I am ignoring the PDF market. A kid who knows nothing about D&D is not going to go out and use the PDF market. PDFs are not a substitute for a good book and they are catered exclusively to the existing messageboard audience.

Well, this is a bit disingenious, as were were talking about the overall market as a whole. Plenty of people _do_ think PDFs are a substitute for a good book, and they have a cheaper option for getting material. I'm not all that keen on them, but I'm glad they are there for the people who want them. If anything, the rise of both PDFs and high-end products is a good thing, as it shows the market is diversifying, to meet different wants.

Heck, even Chris Pramas said that the market was better served by smaller, cheaper products.

Well of course he's gonna say that, 'cause that's mostly what Green Ronin puts out Seriousily though, that is what GR has set itself up to do, with the occasional larger thing(e.g. Black Comapny). And more power to them. That particular market does exist, but it's not the primary one.

 

[Umbran]

So why do some people get so excited about prices of products?

In your list, you missed an obvious one:

Is it because some of you have strictly limited budgets, and every price hike means you're able to buy less and less material for the hobby you love?

 

[OptionalRule]

I don't think there is any one reason for me but a confluence of them. I'm an older gamer and have a good job so I can often afford gaming products but still the price bothers me. This is going to be freeform but I'll try to list a few of those reasons.

Way too many books seem to be little more than repackaging. So while I don't mind spending 40 bucks for a descent and useful book, how many times do I want to spend 40 bucks for it? Races of Eberron is a good example of this, and while I think they are often shooting for repackaging and expanding rules the expanded stuff is often of poor quality.

Not only are things repackaged many times but I feel like it's a matter of time before the repackaged stuff I've got already is going to be obsolete in a few years anyway so why bother buy it? They definitely seem to have a money churn going on in terms of gaming material and new editions for many games seem to be driven by the need to get a new round of money out of the community. So it's really hard to get excited about buying a new book.

I really have to question how much use I get out of many books and that keeps me from buying more. I'm very much an At The Table kind of gamer, so I can enjoy buying books and flipping through them but I honestly have to ask myself if I'm going to get any use out of a book when I pick it up. Were the complete series worth it for me for the odd spell or feat? Is a book worth 40 bucks to use a single prestige class one time for 3 months? I just don't know and I honestly have to say the use I get out of a wide range of books is very limited.

The whole book format is of limited use to begin with for gaming. Books are great and all but nobody likes paging through book after book to find a rule and the last 3 WOTC books I've picked up all hat NO INDEXES in them. That's simply inexcusable to me and means even if I pick up a book and even IF there is something in it I actually want to use, finding it on the spur of the moment can be a task and sometimes not worth it so the purchase becomes not worth it for me.

I'm the GM in my group so often material I get in other gaming books don’t' find their way to a player. The prices are too high for players to just start picking up books to better understand what the GM is doing and I honestly have little interest in pursuing the coolest things that players will never get.

Poorly edited products play a big role in my decision too. I absolutely can't stand poor quality in editing of books. The original Mutants and Masterminds changes entire sections of their book in the errata and I can only keep up with so many books as it is, let alone the errata for each and every one of them.

Other things are a factor too, cheap binding, bad art, not enough useful content and such but those are some big factors off the top of my head.

 

[shaylon]

Um...I gave you that

Busted!

 

[Jupp]

I was rather upset (at myself, I have to admit) after buying the Planar Handbook and reading through it. There I said to myself "That's an outrageous price for such a piece of crap!". But it was my fault. I did not wait for reviews to come up and just bought it because there was "Planar" written on the cover....Mindless advertising slave that I was :/

As someone already said. The price is justified if the product meets your expectations and demands. I think it's cool that the RPG industry starts to produce high quality/high price items. There have not been too many of those in the last few years and if there is a market for those products so why not cater to that audience.

 

[CarlZog]

If I create a product to sell, I'm a fool if I charge less than the market will bear. By definition, if you bought the book, then it wasn't "too expensive." Period.

Yes, a lot of publishers are asking $30+ for their new releases. Some are worth it to me, others aren't. If it's not worth it I don't buy it. But often, I can find someplace where I can get it at a price I am willing to pay (Amazon, Ebay, etc).


During the last few years, a lot of rpg publishers grossly over-estimated the value of their work, and the results were visible at GenCon. For every full price book I saw at GenCon, I saw twice as many books heavily discounted off their suggested retail. There were numerous tables of $5 books with $25+ retail prices. There was one dealer offering four for the price of one. Another dealer had rows upon rows of books at 50% off retail. I would not have, and did not, pay full retail for any of the books I saw on sale. A lot of them weren't even worth $5 to me, but I still found a bunch for which I was happy to pay the asking price.

Carl

 

[Storm Raven]

During the last few years, a lot of rpg publishers grossly over-estimated the value of their work, and the results were visible at GenCon. For every full price book I saw at GenCon, I saw twice as many books heavily discounted off their suggested retail. There were numerous tables of $5 books with $25+ retail prices. There was one dealer offering four for the price of one. Another dealer had rows upon rows of books at 50% off retail. I would not have, and did not, pay full retail for any of the books I saw on sale. A lot of them weren't even worth $5 to me, but I still found a bunch for which I was happy to pay the asking price.

Damn. I have to go to Gen Con next year.