Overrun Objection

[DM_Jeff]

So here's the basic thing that happened last game that for some reason has never come up before in 4 years of 3.5 D&D.

Player: "I overrun the hobgoblin while charging in my large size with Improved Overrun."
Me: "Ok, he still gets an AoO because Improved Overrun just gives you +4 to the roll and he can't choose to move."
Player: "Cool, let's do it!"
**Hobgob blows his AoO. We compare rolls next, and she beats the hobgoblin, easily**
Player: "So now he's prone! I attack him!"
Me: "But, it says you can attempt an overrun as a standard action taken during your
move. (In general, you cannot take a standard action during a move; this is an exception.). You can't take 2 standard actions!"
Player: "But, next it says you can make an overrun as part of a charge... A charge is a double move plus an attack at the end... If it's part of the charge then I get a double move as an overrun plus an attack from the charge, right?"
Me:

In the end, My games never run like this. The word "but" hardly ever comes out of a player's mouth and we resolve stuff like this very quickly. I ruled at the moment that she could (it was a stupid hobgoblin 4 CR's below her, it was meant to die). But I wanted to investigate this further.

As I wrote this email I think this is an attmept to cheese something extra out of the rules. But the rules seem pretty clear. Overrun = movement, you can overrun while charging, charging allows attack at the end. Thoughts and opinions very welcome, however.

-DM Jeff

 

[mikebr99]

you can't overrun as part of a charge..

Overrun
Player's Handbook, page 148
It’s not possible to overrun as part of a charge.
Delete “or as part of a charge” from this paragraph.

Mike

 

[DM_Jeff]

One of the happiest, shortest threads ever, thank you. Errata. Hmm.

-DM Jeff

 

[frankthedm]

Player: "But, next it says you can make an overrun as part of a charge... A charge is a double move plus an attack at the end... If it's part of the charge then I get a double move as an overrun plus an attack from the charge, right?"

Wrong! As soon as the charging character moves into the victims space, the door to apply the charge’s attack has been closed. Hell, it was already too late if the charging character had reach.

Step 1
Attack of Opportunity. Since you begin the overrun by moving into the defender’s space, you provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender.

Movement During a Charge
You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

As soon as the overrun is attempted, you have gone past the closest space to attack the foe from.

I honestly think the errata on overrun goes a little too far. But then again I also don't mind charging through allies spaces. {Though I don't allow PCs to get things like pounce and splat book feat that make charging a huge deal.]