D&D 5E (2024) Just realized Sentinel is heavily nerfed! No longer works with PAM, no longer works on most enemies who Disengage.

[Blue]

No you haven't. You have been told that the stuff that ISN'T yet updated should work with the new material. So you have to RTFM to know which things those are.

I'm sorry, for someone as active on this board as you to claim that we haven't been told that both the 2014 and 2024 books are all 5e is...

I believe it best we no longer continue this particular discussion before something is said that is uncivil.

 

[AlViking]

I'm sorry, for someone as active on this board as you to claim that we haven't been told that both the 2014 and 2024 books are all 5e is...

I believe it best we no longer continue this particular discussion before something is said that is uncivil.

They've been quite clear on what they meant. The only way to not have any difference would have been to not make any change.

 

[ECMO3]

Instead of changing feats or sticking with an unfun RAW version, have you considered just using the version that you all like and thought was being chosen?

No that is not really fair to other players who understood the feats and made choices with that in mind.

Will consider it in session 0 in future games though.

 

[ECMO3]

Yeah, just use the ones your prefer. They're all compatible. It's the same edition, y'know!

We use the recommendation that if you use the 2024 rules anything that is changed is changed to the new version.

So the old version of the Mobile feat still exists since it was not replaced, but the old version of Sentinel does not.

 

[ECMO3]

The removal of PAM's reactive strike and Sentinel's halt combo was almost certainly intentional, and a good thing IMO.

The change to the disengage action is interesting and I wonder if it was intentionally changed to not work with reach weapons. Personally, I could see changing the wording to say "when a creature within your reach" rather than "within 5 feet," but I wonder if there's some abusive combo. Tactically, you could have the polearm sentinel in the 2nd rank, allowing them to make a lot of extra attacks against front line creatures that attack your front line, but this seems like a historically accurate strategy.

It is not just being within reach. The issue is taking disengage eliminates all opportunity attacks for that entire turn.

So Rogue takes disengage at the start of his turn and then runs past 5 enemies to attack the Wizard.

 

[ECMO3]

Will it harm the enjoyment of the game for everyone at the table to just run it like you initially thought it worked? If not, just go with it. Or use the 2014 version.

I don't know. I think it is unfair to bend RAW to suit one player and to make that decision in the middle of a campaign.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm sure the PAM attack not being an opportunity attack was intentional, but the anti-disengange function of Sentinel not working with reach weapons seems like another victim of 5.5s sloppy editing for "brevity".

It is not just reach weapons. Even if I am holding a reach weapon, someone can disengage from 30 feet away and walk right by you (assuming enough movement).

The old Sentinel was completely different in how it applied, you were still able to attack enemies who disengaged, regardless of where they were when they took the action.

 

[ECMO3]

The disengage issue doesn’t even need a rule change. Just never have an enemy move 5ft away and then disengage.

I don't understand what you are saying. Sentinel no longer lets you attack enemies who take the disengage action except when they take that action and only if they take it when within 5 feet.

It is not about "moving away" it is about moving right on past you and ignoring you like you are not there. It is completely different from a control aspect.

To be clear in this respect I am talking about Sentinel specifically, not PAM (as that would still allow an attack when someone entered your space).

 

[AlViking]

It is not just reach weapons. Even if I am holding a reach weapon, someone can disengage from 30 feet away and walk right by you (assuming enough movement).

The old Sentinel was completely different in how it applied, you were still able to attack enemies who disengaged, regardless of where they were when they took the action.

I'd consider a house rule for sentinel and change the "within 5 feet" to "within reach of a melee weapon or unarmed attack" but I'd do that in session 0. Seems more RAI to me.

 

[Morrus]

We use the recommendation that if you use the 2024 rules anything that is changed is changed to the new version.

So the old version of the Mobile feat still exists since it was not replaced, but the old version of Sentinel does not.

That’s a choice.