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Message: <blockquote data-quote="payn" data-source="post: 9528148" data-attributes="member: 90374">Sure. This is entirely subjective though. There was a time I really liked 3E/PF1 for how complex the combat and strategies were. Not too bad compared to straight wargaming, but also a nice twist of role playing in the mix. As i've aged though, im finding myself rather straight wargaming or role playing with faster real world pace game instead. I never played wargames in my youth or narrative driven RPG games, I always split the difference and that fit the bill then. Now I have more of a desire to optimize the experience I am after.    If rules crunch slowdown is the issue, you can always teach best practices. Shortcuts to math, repetion of obscure rules etc.. For non-mechanical slow downs and loss of attention, Im simply no longer in the business of making a player pay attention or fixing their excitment problems. You are in it, or you are not. I just dont have time to waste forcing it to happen any longer. I will politely excuse myself from such a game instead. I think both my drive to optimize my enjoyment and larger available pool of gamers has moved me in this direction.You're welcome.</blockquote>