Paging Scurvy_Platypus (Everstone Questions)

[jdrakeh]

Okay, as a guy whose opinion I have high regard for, I decided to have somebody hold back multiple copies of the Everstone book for me this payday based on your threads. It sounds very cool. That said, I have a few questions for you that I wasn't able to nail down elsewhere online. . .

1. Is Everstone a standalone game or does it require BESM d20?

2. If Everstone requires BESM d20, which version of said game is it built on? 3.0 or 3.5?

3. If it's built on 3.5, can I fudge it with the 3.0 BESM d20 rule book?

4. What, if any, supplements to you recommend (for either BESM d20 or Everstone itself)?

5. How compatible will Everstone be with non-BESM d20 material (e.g., D&D books)?

6. What's the physical quality of the book like?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Well, let's see...

1. Standalone with caveat.

I have the Stingy Gamer Edition of the Revised BESMd20 rules. There's been a couple of instances where I went and picked up the SGE to figure out something in Everstone. If you've got the Anime SRD you should be covered. One of the bits for example being War Golems. You're given fixed stats for 'em. The problem is that for the kind of city-based game I'm going to run, 12 foot tall, 1600 LB War Golems don't quite work. But it's not explicitly said how many points the golems were built on.

Waaaay back at the beginning of the archives of the yahoo group, Jason Moon says:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Everstone/message/14

I actually used 6 character points to build each race. Except the Gavown which only uses 5 character points. Thus when building a character with the BESM d20 book you would have 46 points to spend which would leave you with an extra point for Gavown characters(which should most likely be spent on a Gavown attribute).

2. I _think_ it's built from the 3.0 version. There's a background feat called Ambidexterity, which as I recall was dropped from 3.5. I'm not really familiar with 3.0 though.

3. I think you're solidly covered.

4. Hmmm... sorta tricky.

The Lannith companion can still be bought on RPGNow. You may or may not have a use for it. Mainly it's some adventures, and a mundane fighter template which is almost exactly like the Warrior template from the Everstone Companion. You get a map of Cinder, but it not like that's really a big deal.

As far as specific BESMd20 products are concerned...
The Monstrous Manual _might_ be of use to you. It's got a whole bunch of d20 critters that have been converted over to use the BESMd20 system. You can find copies of it for sale online pretty easily, although not usually discounted.

Having said that, you can buy it from Titan Games for $15 including shipping. Just search ebay for "goo02-605" (minus the quotes) and you'll get the link

As a sidenote, the author of the book has an.... interesting... post here:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=277788

It's up to whomever as to how they want to spend their money, I'm just pointing out both things for folks to think about before they spend their money.

You could go with the Advanced d20 Magic if you wanted, but I personally don't see a whole lot of benefit to doing so. It depends on how much you're into the traditional style of magic (what BESMd20 refers to as Dynamic Sorcery), and if you're looking for the more traditional classes or not.

If you're planning on playing/running the Everstone world (or one similar to it), then neither book is super important. You'll probably get more milage out of the Monstrous Manual.

If you're planning on doing more traditional fantasy gaming, but using the Everstone implementation of the BESMd20 system, then I can certainly see getting both books.

If you plan on doing mecha stuff, or you _really_ want to go all out on doing golems... the Mecha SRD is a pretty good way to go. If you're looking to spend money, I'd get the Dream Pod9 Mecha Compendium Deluxe. It's hardcore mecha building complete with settings and a pretty detailed breakdown of components and so forth. GoO let them use the Mecha SRD to power the DP9 mecha book, and DP9 actually managed to publish theirs before GoO managed to publish. DP9 then went back and added a detailed breakdown and some more settings, and released the revised product as the Deluxe version.

And they've still got the summer sale going, meaning you can pick it up for $20 from them. Just make sure you buy the Deluxe version.
http://www.dp9.com/Products/D20Mecha.htm

I'd probably follow the suggestion in the book and make golems based on around 200-300 mecha points. You'll have to decide on what exactly feels right for you.

Another advantage to using the DP9 book, is that you could reverse engineer the landships/rune vehicles a bit. Rebuild them using the mecha point system, and then use that as a guideline for building others.

I mention this because it appears as though the Shone (the first to stand up to the Hollow Lords) have some sort of magitech equivalent to power armor. So if that's something you're going to keep in the game (or play around with or whatever), it'll give you a consistent method of keeping things on the same relative playing field.

If you don't want to go all out nutty like that....

Factory and Armory, both from Perpetrated Press. Really groovy books. They're written from the point of bringing magic and technology together. I originally picked 'em up to use as additional stuff for Dragonstar, but with a tiny bit of tweaking, you should be able to get a fair amount of use out of them for Everstone. You can find them for sale really cheap on ebay, and for some reason they seem to be tossed into lots. For example, searching ebay for "d20 lot" came up with this one that ends in a day and a half:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mixed-LOT-of-4-...ryZ44112QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Arsenal will get you a variety of additional weapon stuff that can be added, and Factory would be an alternative way to handling golems. While I like 'em both quite a bit you don't really _need_ either of 'em. If you're looking for more weapon/armor stuff though, Arsenal is a pretty good way to go.

If you've got Dragonstar stuff, you could probably pillage some of it as well.

Alot of it really depends on how much magitech you want in your game. Myself, I don't plan on adding in anything really, at least not for a while. If there's a strong push for some additional stuff, then I might do little bits here and there but not too much. A different version of a Land Runner here, a couple of more weapons there.

I do have Chaostech thanks to Ptolus, so I think I'm going to use it as the basis for some of the Vor stuff, but especially for the Adone stuff. There's not much information given about the Adone, other than they keep trying to infiltrate the Magi Guilds, and that they seem to have tech/equipment similiar to the Rune stuff, but it's demon based. Sounds like a perfect match with Chaostech to me.

Like I said, it's kinda tricky. It depends on where you want to push Everstone as to what's going to go best.

5. Hmmmmmmmmm.

Well, obviously there's some incompatability because Everstone has some different assumptions. Armor providing DR, players getting a defense roll, spells over 5th level are inappropriate, and that sort of thing. Everstone does keep the BaB approach (unlike BESMd20 which does combat as a skill) so that helps a bit. Just from what I've been looking at I don't see any really _glaring_ problems. I guess it depends on what you're looking at.

One thing that I'm a bit iffy on is the whole CR system and Everstone. I want to try looking at something like the Sun Magi, and see what one roughly works out at in terms of it's CR level. I'll be using Upper_Krust's CR system which can be found here at Enworld, as well as in the Grim Tales book (which I have).

My impulse is to say that an Everstone character is stronger than an equivalent D&D level character, I'm just not certain how much stronger.

Everstone does explicitly allow for the traditional style of D&D magic item. In fact, they're actually even more valuable, because all the magic stuff in Everstone is powered by Energy Points. Whereas the usual D&D magic stuff isn't. Which is part of why you've got Templars going out and questing for their magic armor and swords for example.

Bringing other classes into Everstone....

That could be tricky. I've been thinking about it myself. Everstone claims any class can be used, it's just the usual D&D/d20 class is more restrictive.Of course, that's because the classes are built on very different assumptions.

If you're simply looking at it purely from the mechanics perspective (the Everstone implementation of BESMd20) then it shouldn't be too hard. Especially since you've got a number of the base classes already worked out for you.

If you're looking at it in terms of something like a Dragon Shaman from the PHB2 being imported into Everstone and how it's going to work with Everstone classes like the Magi, that's where I think it might get a bit tricker. Still workable, but trickier.

6. The book seems pretty well put together. Hardback. Interior pages aren't glossy and it's all black & white.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

Criticisms:

I do want it to be clear that this _isn't_ the most perfect product out there and everyone should rush out and buy it without thought. I really like what it does, and I think it's solid. But here's some of the negatives I've got with it so far....

The organization feels a bit off to me. I find myself flipping back and forth to find bits. The index helps, but it's still a bit scattered. I haven't been able to figure out how exactly I'd organize it differently, but it's occasionally annoying.

Spelling. Yeah, there's some bits that have slipped through. Blind Sight seems to be one of those things that caught them a couple of times. In the Everstone book, they make reference to "Blind Site" at one point. In the Companion, an extremely (in my opinion) funny mistake was made where it's called Bling Sight.

Class construction. This is a pet peeve of mine with a lot of games. I really wish it was more transparent how something was made. You'd think that back engineering Everstone would be easier, since it's a BESMd20 powered product, but you're only partially correct.

For example, it says all the spells were made using the Magic Attribute. Maybe it's because I've got the Stingy Gamer's Edition, maybe it's because it's 3.5, but I'm not quite sure I see how. For example, the Shadow Magi gets Teleport as a spell. 3 CP per rank to buy, and 3 EP per rank to cast. The rangers are Rank 1: 1 mile. Rank 2:10 miles. Rank 3:50 miles. Rank 4: 100 miles.

Looking at the Teleport attribute: 5 points per rank, a Teleport Skill check if you're going more than a fraction of the maximum distance, and the Ranks are 1:1 mile, 2:10 miles, 3:1,000 miles, 4:10,000 miles. Energy cost?

Well, it looks like the cost is supposed to be half of however many points were spent to buy the Rank in the attribute. That's groovy and all, but the Teleport spell doesn't match up that way.

In fact, in theory the Magical attribute cost 4 CP. That then gives you 10 CP to spend buying Attributes that are magic. So for 4 CP I could buy a Rank 2 magical Teleport that cost me 5 EP.

Ah, but wait... the Shadow Magi pays 3 CP & 3 EP per rank. So looking at that, one could guess that maybe they simply said it'd be worth 2 CP per rank, but since there's no skill check being made, bump the cost by 1. And the energy they reset the cost slightly making it more expensive.

Is that true? I've got no bloody idea. I could see it as a line of reasoning, but it's just a guess.

I'm fine with making up my own stuff and deciding what seems reasonable and all, but the way they say it, it _sounds_ like you could reverse engineer what they did and wind up with what it looks like under BESMd20 and I'm not sure that you really can.

The book makes a few missteps since it's based on BESMd20, and leaves out bits and pieces. For example, Experience Points. Look at the critters in Everstone, and there's no XP value. Searching through the book, I don't see anything said about how much XP to hand out for doing anything. Is it supposed to be per session? Per monster killed? No clue. I have to go into my BESMd20 book (Stingy Gamer edition pg 84) and find Character Advancement to see what they say. Of course I could go with the default way of handing out XP that D&D uses, I could do some sort of per session award, I could even do the Chi/Rho method from Grim Tales. Everstone really should have said something about it, since they're looking at being a standalone game.

The Attributes. Maybe this is a strictly personal preference thing, but I don't think they really needed to duplicate all the Attributes like they did. Just about every class gets Charge Bloodstone for example. Instead of repeating the full listing of what the Attribute does every time it comes up in each class, they should have simply listed the Attribute name and how many ranks the class can buy.

The reason why I don't think this is a strictly personal thing is because there isn't a consolidated list of Spells and Attributes. You can look in the index to find them that way, but I don't want to have to remember that the Border Marshal is where Two Weapon fighting is listed (among others). I'd like to just be able to go to a section of the book, and then flip through the alphabetical listing.

I don't know, maybe the costs on the Attributes vary depending on the class taking it, in addition to class restricting how many ranks you can buy. I don't have the patience to compare each and every entry to check.

There's incomplete bits of information scattered all around. Their plan was that they were going to expand on it and fill in the blanks in future supplements. You can make some inferences, but it would have been nice if they'd take the time to at least explain what they're talking about instead of using it as a teaser to buy product that never was released.

For example, the Adone. You can infer that they're human looking since they keep trying to infiltrate the Magi Guilds and they're caught by mind scans/magic (page 25 Magi Training). But there's no real description of them other than that and the fact that they've got some sort of demontech that also apparently uses Bloodstones.

No mention either what exactly these Magi that are skilled in reading minds are actually doing. I don't see a listing of anything like that in any of the spells. Sure, I could import d20 spells of one sort or another. Does Everstone have psionics? Maybe that's how the mind stuff is being done, but again it's not clear.

What about the Shone? No clue. We know they went up against Hollow Lords and won, and that's about it.

Talking about the Library, they mention that Golems are armed with "Slumber Guns". No actual mention of them in the book. I decided I'd run them as being Blaze Pistols that do Stun/Subdual damage. Poking around in the Everstone message archives of the Yahoo group, it turns out that's basically what they are. Again, it's not something hard to come up with, but I can't help but feel I shouldn't really _have_ to if they're going to take the time to mention it.

Energy Points. They take the same line that BESMd20 does in mentioning that they can be used in other ways as well such as altering dice rolls or game events. And then just like BESMd20, they fail to actually say _how_ to use them in this way.

That irks me. Energy Points have the potential to be used as Action Point, along with fueling abilities, spells, and rune strings. That's really cool. So why don't they actually _say_ what they think an EP is worth for doing something like that? They're clearly going for an action packed approach with Everstone. EP is a simple enough resource for a player to manage, giving them a fiddly bit to play with and use in different ways for their character, why not actually go that one little step further and say, "A reroll is worth Xnumber of Energy Points" or "A player may also spend [x number] of Energy Points to gain a bonus of [Y] to their dice roll. "

I'm going to try and figure out a way of rolling some sort of Action Point benefits into Energy Points, but once again I feel that they could have taken the extra step and simply done it at the outset.

World info. In addition to those specifics I mentions above... you know I look at the partial snapshot of the continent they have where Everstone is located, and then I look at the map of the Everstone Valley, and I can't make the two of 'em really match up. I _think_ I know where Everstone is, because it's the only place that makes sense, and yet it's not quite clear how it actually fits there. Maybe it is just a tiny valley nestled inbetween all those mountains, but that doesn't quite jive with what they say. And the Everstone map just confuses things more. A bit better of a match up would have been nice, as well as an actual map of the bloody continent. You don't have to give me a world map of Lannith, but at least give me a map of where all of this stuff is initially happening.

These are the big ones that occur to me. I'm sure there's other things that will rub other people wrong, but these are the ones that get me.

Edit: I really do like Everstone though, both in the version of BESMd20 rules they use, as well as the world background. I just didn't want it to seem like I'm some fanboy that's unware of the flaws or worse yet, trying to conceal flaws. It's got rough edges, but it's easy for me to move past 'em. The enthusiam of the game and the effort that's gone into it really makes up for alot of the shortcomings. I'm also willing to give 'em a break since they managed to put out such a fine first product. The world is engaging and looks like a lot of fun, and there's all sorts of opportunities for different kinds of games. And I _really_ like what they did in terms of taking BESMd20 which looked like it had a lot of potential, and actually doing something solid with it.

Everstone slims down a number of things in D&D/d20 that I don't really care about, and opens it up and makes it much more flexible, while still retaining a clear class structure.

 

[mhd]

My impulse is to say that an Everstone character is stronger than an equivalent D&D level character, I'm just not certain how much stronger.

How come? D&D spells are more powerful and D&D fighters have much more combat options -- you'd have to spend a lot of your CPs just to get on par with their BAB and hit points. And this gets worse with every level added.


And regarding the very first question: It really seems that any references to BESM D20 and the PHB are done mostly for legal reasons. It's remarkably self-contained and I haven't found a spot yet where you really have to read the other books. The tap-dancing around the D20 license gets pretty ridiculous in the character generation setting. You're not allowed to include any methods to generate abilities, so they tell you to use the default method and subtract points if you're above a total of 40 and you can add some if you're below...

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

How come? D&D spells are more powerful and D&D fighters have much more combat options -- you'd have to spend a lot of your CPs just to get on par with their BAB and hit points. And this gets worse with every level added.

Well... kinda.

The default BaB progession Everstone uses matches up to the Wizard BaB.

However, you can also buy the BaB up every level with CP. Sun Magi spend 3 CP for a +1 Attack, 2 CP for a +1 Defense (They get both Attack and Defense Combat Mastery). Each time a class gets a bonus to BaB because of level, they can choose to decide whether that BaB is going to apply to Attack or Defense.

The Magi also have spells built in. The Shadow Magi comes with Quick Kill (basically Sneak Attack/Backstab). It doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination for the player of a Shadow Magi to want to learn the Moon Magi Teleport spell. And there's not really a _good_ reason why they shouldn't other than the GM not wanting to have a teleporting sneak attacker.

Also, don't underestimate the Magic quality.Why? Magic uses exploding d6s. If it comes up 6, roll again and add. A little bit of luck and some pretty sick damage could be dealt. Rune Bombs do 12d6 of damage... I'm betting there'd be some 6s in there. It's not much, but it does add up over time. And in case the implications aren't clear... those weapons with Rune Strings? A number of 'em sport the Magic quality too. So you've got potential to be putting out additional damage without having to roll a crit.

And crits are done the old way, meaning you don't have to roll to confirm it.

As for the Hit Points thing... I don't see your point. HD are based on your race instead of class, sure. And you get extra HD each time you level, just like normal. And you can buy extra HD every level.

In fact in some ways, Everstone characers are worse than D&D ones, because they both get inflating hitpoints, as well as the fact that Everstone is operating on a system somewhat like the VP/WP system. Look at page 52 and the sample character.

+4 BaB, +4 Def, +3 Initiative, and 38 HP. He only took 1 rank of Damn Healthy. Not bad for a 3rd level character, and certainly equivalent enough to D&D characters I've played (and one I'm currently playing)

Looking strictly at an Everstone character, no you're right... you won't generally see as high a number of any one particular thing as one of the standard D&D classes. But they're pretty competent and tough, have access to a fair degree of magic spells that just about _anyone_ can cast (the book is explicit about magic not being generally restricted to certain classes only), and they've got equipment to augment themselves further.

And every level an Everstone character can buy a feat (2 CP) and still have 3 CP left over for improving spell ranks, buying attributes, or whatever.

Like I said, I don't know _for certain_. I will once I start running my game. But my gut instinct is that Everstone characters are tougher than D&D characters. The recovery rate of HP alon for Everstone vs D&D games swings things in Everstone's direction. 1 HP per level per hour might not sound like much, but does make a difference.

Edit: Fixed for some pretty awful spelling mistakes. I'm ashamed.

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

I took the time last night to upload the various pdfs I had from the Iron Golem website, to the yahoo group. This includes the Everstone Companion. That way if I (or some other Everstone fan) isn't around, there's still the chance for someone to get the stuff.

I've started work on an SRD based off of the Anime SRD and incorporating the changes done by Everstone, but I don't know if I'll get around to finishing it anytime soon. Part of that is just because I've got a lot going on in life, and part of it is trying to fill in the blanks so it's really useable all on its own.

 

[jdrakeh]

Wow! Thanks for the super-detailed replies! You have more than answered any questions I may have had and sold me 100%

 

[jdrakeh]

Regarding Everstone and CR, I think I see what the issue is -- the monsters in Everstone are built exactly like PCs in the BESM d20 core book, not per the rules in the later-released BESM d20 Monstrous Manual (creatures in the latter book have CRs, not levels, while all characters -- monsters or otherwise -- created using the BESM d20 core system have levels, not CRs). That said. . .

The CR/Level dichotomy seems to be very similar to that in D&D, so it should be safe to assume that a monster's level in Everstone is roughly equivalent to CR per the Monstrous Manual system, as said CRs are balanced against standard PC levels per BESM d20. So, yeah, it's kind of confusing, though it is ostensibly balanced properly. To simplify -- Everstone Monster Level = Monstrous Manual CR.

 

[jdrakeh]

Oh. And despite the rediculously large number of spelling errors, you're right -- Everstone is very cool

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

I'm glad you're digging Everstone. It's certainly not going to appeal to everyone, but it really hit a nice spot for me. You're the only person I know of that's actually bought something (rpg related that is) based on my liking it, so I'm glad you don't feel like it was a waste of your money.

I'm still pulling together the stuff I want to use for my upcoming game, and really excited to run it. I'll keep updating the other thread (Ptolus in BESMd20 http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=203970) with game specific decisions I make regarding the world, bits I pull in and so forth.

Everstone Monsters:
Yeah, it looked like the Monster Level was their way of renaming CR. I've actually got half an idea regarding this, but I'll talk about it in just a second...

So the reason I've posted a response here (besides posting my joy that jdrakeh doesn't feel like he wasted his money is because I thought that the following bit was a bit more of a "generic" Everstone kind of question, and therefore seperate from my Ptolus in BESMd20 thread. And what's the "following bit"?

To make sense of it, you might want to go to post #42 of this thread: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=132991&page=2&pp=40

That's the v5 of Upper Krust's CR system. This system provided the foundations of the Creature Creation used by Grim Tales. http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4035&

Well, using the v5 version I worked up my best guess for the breakdown of the Everstone races. Yes, I own Grim Tales (the full book, as well as a couple of the electronic exerpts), and no I didn't actually use the Excel sheet to figure this out, I did it by hand using UK's v5 pdf. Why? Because not everybody can (or wants) to buy the very spiffy product that Bad Axe sells, and I figured the way I derived the following information might be useful for someone else to duplicate without having to spend money.

If you plan on doing a lot of CR calculation stuff, spend the $8 and make your life a lot easier.

Now, the whole thing behind coming up with the CR value of the player races relates (in part) to these two threads:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=127923 which basically lays it out. Post 7 - 12 are what's really the important thing.

For those (like myself) that don't know the Chi-Rho thing (a method for handing out XP based on the actual difficulty of the encounter), this thread (starting at post 70) should get you up to speed: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=86471&page=2)

Basically Grim Tales (in addition to being a pretty interesting toolkit) has 2 absolutely cool bits for those folks that like to get into nitty-gritty stuff with monsters/XP. The first is the aforementioned Creature Creation, which is a chapter in the GT book (Chapter 13). The second is also from the GT book (Chapter 14) and sold seperately as the Gamemastering pdf and spreadsheet. http://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4036&

With these two chapters (or Uk's v5, the two threads I posted links to, and some head scratching), I have the tools to make some stabs at using D&D critters in the Everstone game. I had thought about this before, but wasn't sure just how workable of an idea it would be. Obviously playtest will reveal if I'm completely off my rocking chair, but so far it looks promising.

So here's what I came up with, along with an explanation of why wherever I felt it necessary:

Name		Ability				CR adjustment	Reason
Everstonian						
		2 Extra Character Points	0.2		A feat costs 2 CP to purchase, and is worth .2
		4 extra Skill Points		0.08		Each additional Skill point is worth .02
		d8 HP				0.15		
		d8 Energy Dice			0.15		For lack of any other guideline I used the same cost as HD
		Total				0.58		

Fey						
		Abilitiy modifiers		-0.2		Each stat is worth +/- .1 
		d8 HP				0.15		
		d10 Energy Dice			0.183		
		Low Light Vision		0.1		
		Skill bonuses			0.12		+ 6 to skill, each skill bonus worth .02
								(different cost because it's skill specific I guess)
		Total				0.07		
		Dream Walking			?		This one I'm just not sure on. 				
		Faerie Door			.245		I costed this as an At Will 7th level casting of Greater Teleport.
								Regular 5th level TP would be .125
		Wings Rank 1			0.4		Costed this as Flight (poor)
		Wings Rank 2			0.6		Costed this as Flight (average)
		Wings Rank 3			0.8		Costed this as Flight (good)
		Wings Rank 4			1		Costed this as Flight (perfect)

Gavown		Abilitiy modifiers		0.2
		Skill Bonuses			0.16
		d6 HP				0.1165
		d4 Energy dice			0.083
		Spell Resistance		0.2
		2 extra Skill Points		0.04
		Total				0.7995

Golem		Large				0.4
		d12 HP				0.2165
		d8 Energy dice			0.15		
		Intelligent Construct		1.4		
		Total				2.1665		

KaTaan, Male						
		Ability modifiers		0.4		
		d10 HP				0.183		
		d6 Energy dice			0.1165		
		Low light vision		0.1		
		Natural Attack			0.525		1 Attack (claw) 1d6 plus 1 secondary attack (bite) 1d6
		Bonus to Listen checks		0.08		
		Enhanced Smell			0.2		Costing it as if it were the Scent ability
		Bonus save to Fortitude		0.06		
		Total				1.6645		

KaTaan, Female						
		Ability modifiers		0.4		
		d8 HP				0.15		
		d6 Energy dice			0.1165		
		Increased speed			0.2		
		Low light vision		0.1		
		Natural Attack			0.525		1 Attack (claw) 1d6 plus 1 secondary attack (bite) 1d6
		Bonus to Listen checks		0.04		
		Enhanced Smell			0.2		Costing it as if it were the Scent ability
		Bonus save to Fortitude		0.06		
		Total				1.7915		

		Beast Slayer Rank 1		0.2		
		Beast Slayer Rank 2		0.4		
		Landing				0.005		Cost as Spell-like Ability, At Will level 1 Feather Fall

Ogrom		4 extra Skill Points		0.08		
		d8 HP				0.15		
		d8 Energy Dice			0.15		
		Bonus to all awareness checks	0.2		
		Dark Vision			0.2		
		Total				0.78		

		Elemental Armor			0.1		Cost as 4 DR affected by Multiple Elements
		Elemental summoning		0.01		Cost as Summon CR2 creature 5+ times per day 100% success

Now, what I did is I listed all the "base" stuff that every member of the race gets, and then gave a total CR (unadjusted in an way) for that. Afterwards some of the races have special attributes that one they can buy. For example the Fey get wings. Not every character is going to choose to have wings though, so I simply put down the additional CR to be added to the "base" CR, if a character purchases that attribute.

Note: In the Fey example, rank 1 is .4 and rank 2 is .6 does that mean that a Fey with Rank 2 wing has an adjustment of .6 or 1 (.4 and .6 added together)? I personally would say it's an adjustment of .6. It's not as if your flying ability is increasing _that_ much when you move from rank to rank. If you went the additive route, it'd mean a Fey would have 2.8 added to their CR just for having perfect flight. I don't think that's reasonable, since it's not like Fey are going to be doing divebomb attacks like a Dragon or something.

The big animal in that list is the Golem, weighing in at a whopping 2.1665. I'll note now that of course the Golem in Everstone is actually more vulnerable (it's got a Con score, it can suffer critical hits) than the "standard" Construct, but after the different tradeoffs and so forth, it seems to me that the 1.4 adjustment was probably still fair.

Everstonians come out a bit tougher than the standard human (.3 is the standard human race).

Part of the inflation is becuase of the whole Energy Dice. I think it's worth roughly the same amount as regular HD.
Sidenote: One of my complaints above [Guidelines for what Energy Dice can do to modify dice rolls and so forth]? Turns out they actually do have it....as part of the racial entry for Everstonian. Called Focus Energy.
5 Energy points = Ability score +1, Hit Points +2, or a reroll.

Even though it seems as though it's an Everstonian ability, I think I'm going to let any character do it. It lets the EP stand in for Action Points, as well as powering magic and magic items. So it's a single resource with multiple uses, and the players can play around with balancing how to split that resource.

Having done all that work on the races.... I'm going to try and do it for the classes too. I'll only do it for the classes that are explicitly being played though, as I just don't have time right now to do more. Turns out my wife wants to play a multiclass character (Moon Magic/War Golem) so it means I'll get to deal with the "classic" Everstone fluff setup of a Triumvirate with a golem, as I'm pretty sure one of the players is going Sun Magi, and the other Shadow Magi.

In theory, you could simply say that every CP is worth .1 CR and let it go at that. But I'm not entirely certain that's _really_ the case. Certainly we can see how a Golem is going to be skewing things.

At least to begin with, I want to keep an eye on this and see how things shake out. IF (and it's a big one) I do manage to get all the CR factors for the classes worked out in time, it'll mean I have a solid base for estimating just how strong the party really is, and challenge them appropriately.

Note: I'm not a CR expert, so I could very well have messed up in what the stuff should cost for the races. I don't mind any corrections to the errors I've made, I'm just going along here making it up as I go.