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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ARandomGod" data-source="post: 1680455" data-attributes="member: 17296">Yea, mayhaps the chained effect was too much... I didn't think that through, did I?And you are right about physical pain. Do any poisons require a will save? I could have it inject a poison instead for the pain... Or if not, I could have the tendrils themselves perform a magical attack that inflicts the pain...Ahem... anyway, I want it to be a will save at least partially because the fighter's *I* play could basically ignore that fort save if they were level seven. The base DC is 14, + mod ... ignore the mod as an incomparable variable, justify this by saying that con is a fighter main ability, they could easily cancel each other out. Two levels of monk (fort save 3) Two levels of fighter (fort save +3 for 6) two levels of ranger (Fort save +3 for 9), one level of a fighter based PrC, +2 for 10I usually take "Luck of Hero's" as a feat, +1 to all saves ... total save base of 11. There's only a 10% chance of failing that save. Next level of that PrC and it's a 5% chance. Two levels later and it's unfailable. I hate spells that dwindle into uselessness like that.Casters, on the other hand, never or practically never multiclass. Therefore will saves are better. ^_^ Plus, really, this is meant to be a spell *against* fighters. The *different* save types is also a big "boost" to the power of the spell, I admit. Now that I'm thinking of alternate reasons for the "pain" effect, there's no reason not to make them both will saves... I'm thinking that the vines eat into the nervous system itself and replace the nerves with plant matter causing more than simple pain, but a nerve effect that requires a will save. Then the removal of the new plant nervous system also requires a will save to continue functioning. Do you think that this a good enough flavor to move it from the pain flavor.Symbol of Pain.There's a pretty good comparison. One level higher (level 5)Fort save (pain effect's traditional save)–4 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks. 60 foot burst radius. Usually will hit everyone in the (a) party.Lasts for an hour plus 10 minutes per caster level.THAT's an Evil Spell. I'll go back and relook at the spell and do some more editing.It does suggest a fifth level spell that has the same effects of the symbol (probably lower duration. That's a LONG duration), where tendrils hit everyone in a cone or a circle burst.</blockquote>

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