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Painfull, Sadistic spell... Read, Comment!!

ARandomGod

First Post
*** Note, I've edited it several times by now. Please continue to comment! I'm greatly enjoying the alternate opinions

I've been meaning to write it up and put it on here for a while, to give people a chance to tear it down... er, offer constructive critisism. I haven't playtested it at all. I've also thought of several other varients of the spell, including one that works a lot like Infestation of Maggots (druid spell, magic of fearun).

As it is it has lots of flavor. But I figure that it's a custom spell, so more flavor than normal is allowable.
And, of course, the idea and then the name of the spell came from one of my favorite webcomics:
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=20

Evard’s Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
Conjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: Multiple (see text), no two of which can be more than 45 feet apart.
Duration: Instant (see text)
Saving Throw: Will Partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: No

Long, magically animated tentacles of carnivorous plant shoots forth from the casters hand, one tentacle plus one tentacle for every three caster levels. Multiple tentacles may strike a single creature or several creatures. The caster can target a maximum of one target per tentacle. The caster must designate targets before rolling to hit or damage. The caster makes a ranged touch attack for each tentacle to see if it strikes its target.

Each tentacle wraps around the target, with tendrils forcing their way into any available cracks and crevasses in armor or skin, into wounds or other body openings, or creating openings where none exist. Spikes of various sizes sprout from the writhing tentacles as they grow into the target, causing extreme pain. Each tentacle does one point of damage and the pain of any hit causes the target to take a –4 penalty to dex and -2 to all saving throws on the round the victim is hit, no save. This pain effect does not stack if multiple tentacles hit a target, and ends on the victims initiative. While the physical pain of the invasion is immense, it is nothing compared to the pain caused next, as the vines eat into the victims nervous system quickly replacing the nerves with it’s own plant tissue. This pain is indescribable. A will save can be used to resist the plant growing into and replacing the nerves. The victim may spend one move equivalent action to make a will saving throw (DC +1 for every tentacle beyond the first attached to the target) each round the plant is active to prevent the further invasion of the plant. A failed save (or not attempting the save) prevents the victim from performing any actions, due to the nervous disruption of the attack (treat as stunned). Creatures immune to pain may ignore this effect.

Tentacles remain animate for seven rounds after striking the victim as they work their way into the victim. Damage is only done once during this time, but the pain and the stunning effect remains for the full seven rounds as the plant continues to try to eat its way into the body. After this seven round period the vine(s) settle in, and there is no more pain associated with the tentacles as long as they are left intact. However damage caused by the tentacles cannot be healed until they are removed. They may be removed at any time using a standard action, if the person attempting the removal makes a strength check (DC equal to save DC) for each vine to be removed. Attempting removal causes the victim extreme pain, and with each attempted removal the victim must make a will save or fall unconscious for d4+1 rounds due to the nervous disruption caused by the attempt. Creatures immune to pain may ignore this effect. A Remove Disease cast on the victim at any time will cause the tentacles to fall off without further pain or damage.

If the tentacles are not removed they continue growing inside the target’s body doing 2 con damage per day, eventually killing the target and living off the body as a carnivorous vine*. If the tentacles are not removed before doing con damage, they do an additional 2 points of damage for each point of con damage that has been inflicted by the tentacle.

* The vine in question would be, of course, campaign specific. And the effect of the vines remaining and growing into another vine are purely flavor in the campaign. As it’s assumed that anyone who lives through the attack will manage to remove the vines before they actually do further damage. For the purpose of transporting this spell use whatever vines the GM says is appropriate, or make one up! If you'd rather... here's what happens in the campaign world this spell was made in.

The carnivorous vine plant takes 2 weeks to a month to fully mature; when soil, water, and sunlight will support plant life. During this growth period it remains immobile, quiescent. Any creature coming into contact with a mature vine, however, must make a reflex saving throw DC 10 or be attacked by up to three vines, depending on the size of the growth. The vines make a touch attack, base attack +0. (Note: The GM may decide that the character is flatfooted!) If a vine hits it wraps around the target it performs as in the spell description above. The victim cannot move from the vine area without removing every vine that has made a successful hit. If the victim stays in the plant's reach, possibly passing out from the pain (see removal), he will be attacked by 1-3 vines each round he remains alive.
 
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ARandomGod

First Post
What do you guys think... too much? Too little?
Originally I had it auto hit like magic missile instead of ranged touch attack, but I felt that would be too much.
I also considered bumping it up to d6 damage, I mean, it's fourth level! But then again, it's pretty powerful already, and damage isn't the point. The point, obviously, is incredible dehabilitating PAIN.
I also really like the effect of having the plants created by the spell not dissapear, thereby having the spell spread the growth of whatever carnivorous plant is used as a material component.
 

Nellisir

Hero
A bit much, I think. I understand the effect you're going for, but I'd trim it down and cut out the "turning into a carnivorous plant" part. The vines penetrating armor and flesh is nice; I'd concentrate on that and set a fixed duration. Look at either heat metal or Melf's acid arrow as templates.

Cheers
Nell.
 

ARandomGod

First Post
Nellisir said:
A bit much, I think. I understand the effect you're going for, but I'd trim it down and cut out the "turning into a carnivorous plant" part. The vines penetrating armor and flesh is nice; I'd concentrate on that and set a fixed duration. Look at either heat metal or Melf's acid arrow as templates.

Cheers
Nell.

It only does damage once, so those aren't great comparisons. I started with the base of magic missile and hideous laughter. The damage is merely a nod to the fact that the pain comes from actual physical torture. The actual effect is to remove actions for x amount of time. Although a fixed duration would be a good way to tone it down if it's decidedly too powerful, I hadn't thought of that as a method of toning it down. How many rounds would you think appropriate for a fourth level spell?

Now, as for the spawning of new carnivourous plants, that's the extra flavor that I meantioned at first, as being potentially too much for a printed spell (after all, what type of carnivourous plants?). That's all GM and campaign specific. But I don't think it's too much as a custom spell... which this would definitely be.

I really want comments on appropriate power levels for the spell, and suggested solutions.
(Once again I'll look into that fixed duration solution, there's no reason for it to last longer than seven rounds? Four rounds + caster's int mod? Five, ten?)

This weekend I decided to look again at slow, a third level spell. (This is currently listed as fourth, one level higher)

Slow= 1rd per level
This= 1 round per level... I'll change it to 7 rounds

Similiar effect (this effect is more powerful, I also agree that tasha's spell is practically and perhaps actually overpowered for it's level, and I originally based it off that, but this is two levels higher than tasha's), slow has will negates totally, but auto hits. Because slow's effect is totally based on the spell function.
On this a will save is needed to take an action, but nothing stops the spell... as it's a summon and monsterous effect more than a spell effect, the will save in needed to operate in spite of the pain. I also thought of making it a fort save instead of a will save, but a will save seems more spell appropriate to me (as nothing lessens the pain, but will let's you operate anyhow). This needs a to hit roll, because the effect isn't from the spell so much as from the vines. Although the spell obviously ports the vines to the target.

This does some minor damage, slow does none.

Slow affects three times as many targets

I can't look up the laughter spell from here (I don't see it in the SRD) I can't look up Melf's spell either. Heat is there... Not as related as slow.

I think I'll change it to seven rounds (as per heat metal) .
That should be more than enough time. I don't want to get rid of the spawning new plants though, although it's just fluff it has in campaign reasons to exist that way. I wouldn't have any problem lowering the damage to d2, as I said, the damage is just a nod to give the reason for the pain. I'll change the range to close as well.

What other suggestions do you (or others) have?
 
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Some proposed changes:

ARandomGod said:
Evard’s Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion
Conjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets: 1 per level (max 10)
Duration: 4 rounds + 1 per 2 levels (max 10 rounds)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: No

For every two caster levels, a long magically animated tentacle of carnivorous plant shoots forth from the casters hand (Max ten). If you shoot multiple tentacles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. Each tentacle can only strike a single target. You must designate targets before roll to hit or damage. The caster makes a ranged touch attack for each tentacle to see if it strikes the target.

Each tentacle does d4+1 points of damage as it wraps around the target, with tendrils forcing their way into any available cracks and crevasses in armor or skin, into wounds or other body openings, or creating openings where none exist. Spikes of various sizes sprout from the writhing tentacles as they grow into the target, causing extreme pain. The pain caused by the tentacles effectively prevents the target affected by any number of tentacles from performing any action (treat as stunned) unless victim makes a will saving throw (DC +1 for every tentacle beyond the first attached to the target) in each round that the victim wishes to attempt an action. A successful saving throw allows one standard action. Creatures immune to pain may ignore this effect.
Tentacles that have done any damage remain after the spell ends, but are no longer animated and do not cause further pain. However damage caused by the spell cannot be healed until the tentacles are removed. They may be removed with a strength check DC 15. If the tentacles are not removed they continue growing inside the target’s body doing 2 con damage per day, eventually killing the target and living off the body as a carnivorous vine. When removed from the body each tentacle does 1 damage, plus 2 damage for each point of con damage inflicted by the tentacle. Attempting removal causes extreme pain, and with each attempted removal the victim must make a fort save (DC 10 +1 per damage done in the removal) or fall unconscious for 6+2d3 rounds. Remove Disease will cause the tentacles to fall off without further pain or damage.

Beaut of a spell - we've discussed this before :)

Modified range: Should be close.
Modified number of targets: Should increase with higher levels. At 7th, it'll give 8 targets. By 9th your at your max of 10 (you only have 10 fingers after all :) )
Modified duration: More akin to other 4th level spells, also extends duration.
Query: Why set duration if tentacles remain? Let it be an 'instant', but after having been inflicted, further violent motion should cause damage...
Modified saving throw: My mental prowess (wisdom) shouldn't enable me to withstand such a spell... but my physical toughness might. I can see that you are thinking mind over pain, but in the dnd system, CON opposes pain most often... (didn't change the text, not sure of all the changes Fort save suggests beyond -"im tough, I can take it, it can't hurt me, etc")

Let it be an 'instant' duration/effect. Let the tentacles remain, alive, and growing into them. Now let a druid cast 'plant growth' on them....

Ow.

4th level - definitely.
 

ARandomGod

First Post
Tilla the Hun (work) said:
Some proposed changes:



Beaut of a spell - we've discussed this before :)

Modified range: Should be close.
Modified number of targets: Should increase with higher levels. At 7th, it'll give 8 targets. By 9th your at your max of 10 (you only have 10 fingers after all :) )
Modified duration: More akin to other 4th level spells, also extends duration.
Query: Why set duration if tentacles remain? Let it be an 'instant', but after having been inflicted, further violent motion should cause damage...
Modified saving throw: My mental prowess (wisdom) shouldn't enable me to withstand such a spell... but my physical toughness might. I can see that you are thinking mind over pain, but in the dnd system, CON opposes pain most often... (didn't change the text, not sure of all the changes Fort save suggests beyond -"im tough, I can take it, it can't hurt me, etc")

Let it be an 'instant' duration/effect. Let the tentacles remain, alive, and growing into them. Now let a druid cast 'plant growth' on them....

Ow.

4th level - definitely.

1) Definitely changing it to close. Makes sense, and it's not very useful at a distance anyhow.

2) Recheck the number of targets, it was set at one target for every three levels, that's only two at level seven. I've added one, so now it's one plus one per three caster levels. Still, point taken, I've removed the cap. Do you think I should have more for this power level? I want each tentacle to be pretty horrible, so I don't want a larger number of lesser hits.

3) OOhh, I like the flavor of it being an instant spell. It improves things considerably. Still... I think it would be wayy too powerful if the tentacles were just there causing pain if any action is taken until removed... On the other hand, I might be wrong. That would also be completely in flavor for the spell... Perhaps I should make the tentacles non-removable for the seven rounds?

I can see either of these. First off, it's not to hard (by this character level) for a person to remove the tentacles... and that effectively ends the effect. So either having the effect open ended (until removal) or having it non removable for an amount of time it's active seems appropriate. I think that for now I'm going to play with a variation on that second theme.

4) You're right, tradition says this should be resisted with fort. But I *want* it to be resisted by willpower. There's just so much pain no matter how tough you are, it takes will to over come the stunning effect... No, stunning is also traditionally overcome by Fort. But hell, why are we so constrained by precedent? Ignore the fact that it's a non-traditional save and look only at the power level of the spell. I'm keeping it a will save for now, it fits the feel of what I want. Barring further comments, of course.
 
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Nellisir

Hero
ARandomGod said:
It only does damage once...

Hit point damage isn't everything (and it doesn't do damage only once).

It does 1d4+1 initially.
It forces a Will save every round for 7 rounds, or the target is stunned.
If the save is successful, the target is STILL restricted to a single standard action.
Removing it automatically inflicts 1 hp of damage.
The creature removing it (possibly or probably the target) must make a Str check, and the target must make a Fort save (double standard here -- both saves should be either Will or Fort), and takes 1d4+1 damage.
Vine potentially "chains" to a second target and repeats cycle. Continue indefinately.

If vines aren't removed, -2 Con per day (no save), until death.

More later.
Nell.
 

Nellisir

Hero
OK, I STILL don't have alot of time, but I read the other posts a little slower. This is a ROUGH outline of the direction I'd go; I realize it doesn't do everything you want yet.

Range: Close
Duration: 7 rounds
Targets: 1 creature per 3 levels, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart (gives 3 targets at 7th level)
Save: Fort* partial

Effects (summarized): Ranged touch attack; inflicts 1d4+1 damage (no save); forces Fort save (1/tendril**), failure inflicts wracking pain on target (-4 to attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks, per symbol of pain). Str check equal to save DC to remove; attempt inflicts 1d4+1 damage plus Fort save; failure renders target stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. Active effects cease after 7 rounds; effects of removal remain until tendrils are successfully removed.

Cheers
Nell.

*I know you want it to be a Will save, but a Fortitude save is to resist physical effects, including pain caused by physical effects, which is exactly what this spell does. Making it a Will save is saying that a wizard is better at resisting physical pain than a fighter. You're welcome to disregard the protocol, but I won't do it for you. ;)

**the penalties don't stack, but forcing multiple saves is a significant penalty in itself.
 
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ARandomGod

First Post
Nellisir said:
OK, I STILL don't have alot of time, but I read the other posts a little slower. This is a ROUGH outline of the direction I'd go; I realize it doesn't do everything you want yet.

Range: Close
Duration: 7 rounds
Targets: 1 creature per 3 levels, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart (gives 3 targets at 7th level)
Save: Fort* partial

Effects (summarized): Ranged touch attack; inflicts 1d4+1 damage (no save); forces Fort save (1/tendril**), failure inflicts wracking pain on target (-4 to attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks, per symbol of pain). Str check equal to save DC to remove; attempt inflicts 1d4+1 damage plus Fort save; failure renders target stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. Active effects cease after 7 rounds; effects of removal remain until tendrils are successfully removed.

Cheers
Nell.

*I know you want it to be a Will save, but a Fortitude save is to resist physical effects, including pain caused by physical effects, which is exactly what this spell does. Making it a Will save is saying that a wizard is better at resisting physical pain than a fighter. You're welcome to disregard the protocol, but I won't do it for you. ;)

**the penalties don't stack, but forcing multiple saves is a significant penalty in itself.

Yea, mayhaps the chained effect was too much... I didn't think that through, did I?

And you are right about physical pain. Do any poisons require a will save? I could have it inject a poison instead for the pain... Or if not, I could have the tendrils themselves perform a magical attack that inflicts the pain...

Ahem... anyway, I want it to be a will save at least partially because the fighter's *I* play could basically ignore that fort save if they were level seven. The base DC is 14, + mod ... ignore the mod as an incomparable variable, justify this by saying that con is a fighter main ability, they could easily cancel each other out.

Two levels of monk (fort save 3) Two levels of fighter (fort save +3 for 6) two levels of ranger (Fort save +3 for 9), one level of a fighter based PrC, +2 for 10
I usually take "Luck of Hero's" as a feat, +1 to all saves ... total save base of 11. There's only a 10% chance of failing that save. Next level of that PrC and it's a 5% chance. Two levels later and it's unfailable. I hate spells that dwindle into uselessness like that.
Casters, on the other hand, never or practically never multiclass. Therefore will saves are better. ^_^ Plus, really, this is meant to be a spell *against* fighters.

The *different* save types is also a big "boost" to the power of the spell, I admit. Now that I'm thinking of alternate reasons for the "pain" effect, there's no reason not to make them both will saves... I'm thinking that the vines eat into the nervous system itself and replace the nerves with plant matter causing more than simple pain, but a nerve effect that requires a will save. Then the removal of the new plant nervous system also requires a will save to continue functioning. Do you think that this a good enough flavor to move it from the pain flavor.

Symbol of Pain.
There's a pretty good comparison.
One level higher (level 5)
Fort save (pain effect's traditional save)
–4 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks.
60 foot burst radius. Usually will hit everyone in the (a) party.
Lasts for an hour plus 10 minutes per caster level.
THAT's an Evil Spell.
I'll go back and relook at the spell and do some more editing.
It does suggest a fifth level spell that has the same effects of the symbol (probably lower duration. That's a LONG duration), where tendrils hit everyone in a cone or a circle burst.
 
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Nellisir

Hero
Two quick points (as usual, I don't have much time):
1 - A 4th level spell requires a caster with an Intelligence of at least 14; 14 is a +2 mod, so base save will, baring extra-ordinary circumstances, be at least a 16 DC.

2 - You should "type" or explain the AC penalty. Is it a -4 Dex penalty (because the target is in pain and not dodging)? Is it a penalty to armor bonuses (because the tendrils are cracking armor)?

-4 Dex is the most obvious way to go. Dealing with armor gets into a whole MESS of issues.

Cheers
Nell.
 

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