Painfull, Sadistic spell... Read, Comment!!

[ARandomGod]

Two quick points (as usual, I don't have much time):
1 - A 4th level spell requires a caster with an Intelligence of at least 14; 14 is a +2 mod, so base save will, baring extra-ordinary circumstances, be at least a 16 DC.

2 - You should "type" or explain the AC penalty. Is it a -4 Dex penalty (because the target is in pain and not dodging)? Is it a penalty to armor bonuses (because the tendrils are cracking armor)?

-4 Dex is the most obvious way to go. Dealing with armor gets into a whole MESS of issues.

Cheers
Nell.

I'll do the 4 dex penalty.
Now, I was going for the character gets that penalty when first hit, and the other effects take place on the characters next initiative... so if the target's initiative is next, the effect is basically negligable, but if the target has already gone (say he went first and the caster went second), this effect would last through every other attack until his next initiative. Was that adequately expressed? Is that too complicated to express?

 

[hong]

Mmm, hentai.

 

[ARandomGod]

Mmm, hentai.

For extra henti flavor, you can always give them a mouth with an eye in the middle.

 

[Nellisir]

Now, I was going for the character gets that penalty when first hit, and the other effects take place on the characters next initiative... so if the target's initiative is next, the effect is basically negligable, but if the target has already gone (say he went first and the caster went second), this effect would last through every other attack until his next initiative. Was that adequately expressed? Is that too complicated to express?

Penalty begins on caster's initiative, and ends immediately before target's next initiative. Nope, not too complicated.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

I'll do the 4 dex penalty.
Now, I was going for the character gets that penalty when first hit, and the other effects take place on the characters next initiative... so if the target's initiative is next, the effect is basically negligable, but if the target has already gone (say he went first and the caster went second), this effect would last through every other attack until his next initiative. Was that adequately expressed? Is that too complicated to express?

"The -4 dex penalty applies to the opponents armor class immediately and lasts until their next initiative"

Nope. Not too complicated at all! However - it's not clear from the current version of your text - is it a -4 dex for 'each vine that hits', cumlative, or is it only a single -4 to dex?

And we're -still- discussing the will save vs fort aren't we?

Two concepts, one simple, one complex...

The simple one first:
The plants are real plants. Let's put them under the caster's control (his will), but since they are invading the hosts nervous system, the host gets a will save to try and control them to resist the intrusion. After the first round, the plants are in, no longer being controlled, and it's down to a fort save to resist the pain they are causing. Fort Save for 1/2 damage, and no Con Damage. Every round. Remember, a 1 fails a saving throw

Automatic Failures and Successes: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure, and the spell may cause damage to exposed items (see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw, below). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success.

But even with a 1 - can the plant infest clothing and grow from there??

Do you have to target the fighter, or can you create a plant at his feet?



For the complex concept:
First round, that wizard is attempting a ranged touch attack against the fighter... He's actually 'summoning' a 'carnivorous vine' (CV) plant... So let's instead think about that 'summoning' aspect instead of 'aiming'....


Let the wizard create up to 1 per 3 levels of caster CV plants in a 60' cone shaped area. Small green tendrils sprout from the caster fingers and hit the targeted locations, instantly erupting into fully mature CV plants that are, temporarily, under the control of the caster. The caster makes a ranged touch attack against the fighter, who has a will save to avoid taking damage if hit as it is an opposed contest of wills to control the plants this first round. If the fighter should happen to somehow win that contest of wills, the plants are held at bay this round. After the first round, the plants autonomously attack their current target (the fighter) with their own melee touch attacks, against which the fighter can only make fortitude saves to 'resist' the pain or 'tough' it out.

That fort save, fyi, should only be for half damage - slowing the intrusion, but not stopping it.

The original plants dissappear after the duration of the spell, but anyone infected with the plant remains in pain, and the new plant continues to grow within them, causing will saves to avoid the internal pain effects - justified by the simple fact that internal pain is traditionally resisted by will... saves vs disease are sometimes will based, as are some of the more pathogenic poisons (can't think of any from the DMG, but I remember seeing some)

Since the spell creates several plants for several rounds and since each plant can apparently cause 1-3 tendrils to attack per round...

Perhaps that'd up the level of the spell too much, as well as creating too much 'flavor' that might be hard to transfer to a new setting...

 

[ARandomGod]

"The -4 dex penalty applies to the opponents armor class immediately and lasts until their next initiative"

Nope. Not too complicated at all! However - it's not clear from the current version of your text - is it a -4 dex for 'each vine that hits', cumlative, or is it only a single -4 to dex?

Only a single penalty to the target (I'll try and fix the text to better represent that). That's supposed to represent the initial pain that could potentially be resisted by fort. The later pain is all internal as the plant attempts to eat and take over the subject's nervous system, hence justifying the save being will instead of fort. Skipping allowing any save at all on this transient effect to avoid double jeopardy involved in requiring two different saving throws.

And we're -still- discussing the will save vs fort aren't we?

Apparently, at least a little. ^_^

Two concepts, one simple, one complex...

The simple one first:
The plants are real plants. Let's put them under the caster's control (his will), but since they are invading the hosts nervous system, the host gets a will save to try and control them to resist the intrusion. After the first round, the plants are in, no longer being controlled, and it's down to a fort save to resist the pain they are causing. Fort Save for 1/2 damage, and no Con Damage. Every round. Remember, a 1 fails a saving throw



But even with a 1 - can the plant infest clothing and grow from there??

Do you have to target the fighter, or can you create a plant at his feet?



For the complex concept:
First round, that wizard is attempting a ranged touch attack against the fighter... He's actually 'summoning' a 'carnivorous vine' (CV) plant... So let's instead think about that 'summoning' aspect instead of 'aiming'....


Let the wizard create up to 1 per 3 levels of caster CV plants in a 60' cone shaped area. Small green tendrils sprout from the caster fingers and hit the targeted locations, instantly erupting into fully mature CV plants that are, temporarily, under the control of the caster. The caster makes a ranged touch attack against the fighter, who has a will save to avoid taking damage if hit as it is an opposed contest of wills to control the plants this first round. If the fighter should happen to somehow win that contest of wills, the plants are held at bay this round. After the first round, the plants autonomously attack their current target (the fighter) with their own melee touch attacks, against which the fighter can only make fortitude saves to 'resist' the pain or 'tough' it out.

That fort save, fyi, should only be for half damage - slowing the intrusion, but not stopping it.

The original plants dissappear after the duration of the spell, but anyone infected with the plant remains in pain, and the new plant continues to grow within them, causing will saves to avoid the internal pain effects - justified by the simple fact that internal pain is traditionally resisted by will... saves vs disease are sometimes will based, as are some of the more pathogenic poisons (can't think of any from the DMG, but I remember seeing some)

Since the spell creates several plants for several rounds and since each plant can apparently cause 1-3 tendrils to attack per round...

Perhaps that'd up the level of the spell too much, as well as creating too much 'flavor' that might be hard to transfer to a new setting...

I imagine that they indeed could infest clothing and grow from there. It IS a touch attack, after all, indicating that they only have to hit the target, or the target's clothing or armor.

The more complicated version is nice, but would be more powerful.
Lessening the overall power is why I had the aiming of the summoned vines, as opposed to auto hits. For indeed it is a summoning type spell.

For saves, though, would be difficult to make it for half damage, as I've reduced the damage to one. ^_^

 

[Nellisir]

Lessening the overall power is why I had the aiming of the summoned vines, as opposed to auto hits. For indeed it is a summoning type spell.

If the plants are creatures, and not a spell effect, they need to have hit points, AC, and all the other miscellany that goes with being a creature.

Cheers
Nell.