Pathfinder 1E Paizo Annoucement!

[Soel]

Haven't dled Paizo's rules yet, but I will say I was against them doing a 3.75. I understand why they did it, but I already have my own adjustments to 3.5 and they are closer to 4e-ish.

Still, adventures are pretty easy to convert, so I don't see why someone couldn't still use most of their products. I even expect that by the time 4e is out, there will likely be 4e conversions by fans on their boards withing weeks of the Pathfinder's release, barring some legal schmaltz.

 

[Azzy]

On the one hand, I can understand Paizo's frustration with the license being late and their two biggest projects being taken away from them. Without Dungeon and Dragon, and without the license, they have little other recourse in remaining alive as a company.

On the other hand, there's a streak of bitterness and nerd rage a mile wide in this. It's covered under language of "wanting to tell our sort of stories," but railing against secrecy in a closed beta test is a deliberate and unnecessary "Take THAT!" that strikes me as sour grapes.

Furthermore, I don't like their business model. At all. "Okay, we'll give you a slightly improved version of what you already have for free so you can playtest it. Then, a few months later, once we iron some of the kinks out, we'll charge you for it so you can help us fix it better! Then, once we're satisfied with it, we'll charge you TWICE AS MUCH for the final version. And we may switch to another game at that point."

The only people I see going for that are the REALLY recalcitrant 4e haters.

Talk about nerdrage? Your post is filled with the sound and fury of dark conspiracies and betrayals, with words and events filtered through poop-tinted glasses. Maybe you need you take a deep breath and get some fresh air from outside. Stop condescending Paizo, and stop trying to alienate and insult those of us who choose not to go with 4th edition.

 

[wedgeski]

I think Paizo just reduced 4E's initial sales by at least a quarter. Possibly as much as by half.

Oh I doubt that very much. Maybe a few decimals into a percentage point here and there.

 

[Yair]

Interesting.

In retrospect, I don't think Paizo really had a choice here - not without changing their whole Adventure Path churning machine.

I'm pleased with their decision to run an open Beta, but am frankly wanting more deviation from 3e than their ruleset will likely support.

I wish them good luck with this new direction. My prediction, however, is that this path will provide sufficient revenue initially but that 4e proceeds will increase while the 3.5e proceeds will diminish, and that in a few years Pathfinder will be switching to 4e.

At any rate I'm greatly enjoying Paizo's Shackled City Adventure Path, and will be happy to purchase other 3.5/Pathfinder path if I decide 4e isn't working great. For my 4e intended playtest game, I'm looking forward to Necromancer adventures, which I understand will be kind-of supporting Paizo in a way.

 

[The_Fan]

Talk about nerdrage? Your post is filled with the sound and fury of dark conspiracies and betrayals, with words and events filtered through poop-tinted glasses. Maybe you need you take a deep breath and get some fresh air from outside. Stop condescending Paizo, and stop trying to alienate and insult those of us who choose not to go with 4th edition.

Mmm..sorry, somewhere halfway through that post kinda got away from me. I feel like mommy and daddy are fighting here with this split between Paizo and WotC. I know which parent I'm going to end up with too, but I was hoping I'd still be able to visit with the other one.

 

[vagabundo]

I posted this elsewhere but wanted it here

Really nice layout and art. I wish these guys would go 4e, but there will be enough for me to do with 4e.

The rules all seem nice, but I get the same ould feeling from 3.5e, I'm tired and I want to move on. I want a bigger change. I hope this goes well for them and they come to 4e in 2009.

All the best Paizo...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

It's fairly simple. 3.5 is, as far as I am concerned, broken beyond repair, it's broken at it's core if you will. So, therefore, building another version of it will still not change that fact.

And if you truly believe you will have a say in how it will be, I have a bridge for sale. No way any DND forum will agree on anything regarding rules, which means, in the end, it will be the Paizo designers who will make the choices. I am sure they will listen, if they can through all the whining, bitching and mud-throwing that will follow.

I agree that the idea that "poll-created, fan-made" D&D will not work. But fan input and (or rather by) open playtesting I think has a good chance of success, even though I tend to think it might be a little bit to early at this point, but I might be wrong.

And that 3.x has a lot of inherent flaws that take a lot of work to repair - and won't allow backwards compatibility. Fixing something like magic item dependency while maintaing the viability of the CR values is very hard. Iron Heroes did it, but backwards compatiblity is not really given with IH. Yes, you can use the same monsters, but you can't use the same PrCs, spells or other material. And that's bad.

But, considering that, and even though I realize it is an alpha, I did at least expect to see a handful of original ideas in it, which I didn't. Well, maybe a couple, but nothing that even remotely gives me the hope that Paizo can do this in a way that satisfies people like me, who believe 3.5 doesn't really work.

I think you're a bit unfair here. If we look at the RPG market (including indie RPGs), I doubt you will find much that is truely original. 4E D&D isn't different in that regard. It is more a matter of arranging good ideas so they work together and presenting it as a game. There is still a lot of detail work after finding the good ideas, but there is rarely something that's really original in the sense of "Nobody ever thought of this before!".

I haven't looked at the rules yet, but from what I heard for senses outside of spot or listen is interesting idea that can add to the game. (But is it original? If it is, I certainly had such a thing on my mind for years, so maybe I should abandon my career as Software Engineer and become a Game Designer).


In the end, I don't know if the fracturing due to 2 1/4 editions (4E + 3.75 + 3.5) can work out for Paizo. I think they are the best one to "guesstimate" it, since they probably know their customers and their figures - and they also know their expectations on what they want to achieve. Time will tell if they were off or right on target. In the end I hope they will concentrate on 4E enough to create good adventure modules. Because that's what my group needs. But if it's not them, maybe someone else will jump into the fray. I think the market is there, and if it's not Paizo that fills it in the long run, someone else will do it.

 

[Azzy]

Mmm..sorry, somewhere halfway through that post kinda got away from me. I feel like mommy and daddy are fighting here with this split between Paizo and WotC. I know which parent I'm going to end up with too, but I was hoping I'd still be able to visit with the other one.

Hey, you might eventually--Paizo has said that they may end up producing some 4th edition products in the future. Hopefully, they'll be able to do both and we both will be able to brings some quality Paizo goodness to our respective gaming tables.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

When teamed with Necro's move to 4E, it's an interesting idea. Kinda like having your cake and eating it too. I was a longtime subscriber to Dragon, and even stayed for the first few issues of the new Pathfinder, but I believe this is where I say "So long and thanks for all the fish."

Good luck Paizo, hope it works for you as you guys do very good work.

 

[Maltrok]

I don't read this as Paizo giving the finger to WotC in the least. I see this as a business decision to stay liquid. Having to wait another 6 months or more before being able reasonably start releasing product again is a good way to disappear forever.

They say multiple times in the piece that they may support 4e in the future, and I fully expect that they will, but they can't say, "Look, we need to do something to make money for the next year while we are ramping up on 4e." Especially not when they are launching a new RPG.

It's a reach for the brass ring, launch their own RPG that they can support, and if it hits and stays worthwhile they keep pouring resources into it. Then when WotC gets it's act together and allows others to play ball, they get ramped up on that and start releasing product for that as well.

It is only here on the forums that we see FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT. No sane business is going to ignore the market leader completely. It would be long term suicide.

They sure as heck can't make money on 4e right now, since there is nothing to make money on, and 3.5 sales are lower now as well. They have to make money. This is an avenue to do that.

I am going fully at 4e, I've already pre-ordered basically everything. But until then, I'll try out Pathfinder, and will probably pick up the final rulebook when it comes out if it lives up to their excellent track record of the past.

I'm also still hoping that WotC realizes they really can't support 4e books and Dragon and Dungeon and we see Paizo publishing that again some time in the next year or so.

Good luck, Paizo.