Pathfinder 1E Paizo Annoucement!

[grimslade]

Why is there all the negativity about the Paizo plan? Seriously. Are we bent that Mongoose isn't updating Conan to 4E? Is Green Ronin the divil for not turning Freeport to exclusively 4E? No, because that would be dumb.

I am disappointed that I will not have fantastic Paizo 4E Pathfinder adventures at GenCon but I can understand it. I can even support it. Paizo supporting their vocal fanbase is a good thing and it does not diminish WotC or D&D 4E in any way. Erik Mona is not going to take your dice away and make you play a gnome bard.

You do not need to buy Pathfinder products. You might want to purchase them to mine ideas because they are well crafted regardless of system. I would rather see Paizo turn out quality product that is enthusiastically developed for 3.X than see them ride the gravy train of WotC with soulless products that is truly 'work' to produce.

Necromancer is ready to enthusiastically provide 4E content for all, including an Adventure Path. I would imagine Paizo will also provide 4E accessories at some point. Power cards and Mark markers that sort of thing. There are many other publishers curious to see the GSL to make up their minds. 4E will have no shortage of product.

Paizo is taking a huge leap. They have switched from being the Dungeon/Dragon magazine folks to a force in the OGL/D20 community. They will have an incredibly difficult path ahead of them and a real gamble on a niche market. I wish them luck.

And really, Erik, don't take my dice and make me play a gnome bard. They're creepy. Like Gacy clown creepy.

 

[Psion]

They can't say that. People would interpret it to mean that they'd LIKE to be publishing under 4e, but because they can't due to release schedules and the need to get product out the door, they'll have to publish something crappier instead.

I, too, share your distaste of phrases like "right for the stories we want to tell," mostly since its a vague, content-free emotional catch phrase appropriate only for marketing speak.

Well, it could be that, but I think it's not, considering that Erik said something to this effect even way before they were courting the possibility of a 3.75. I even had it in my sig for a while, because it reflected how I felt 4e would impact my campaign. So I think there is a genuine creative concern here.

 

[breschau]

The answer is "None whatsoever." WOTC has no right to use/control/reprint/sublicense any material released under the OGL, except under the terms of the OGL. Same as you or me or anyone else.

They have rights to release *their own material* under any license -- just as I could release a wholly original (not SRD-derived) game system under both the OGL and Creative Commons, but they cannot release other people's material.

They *can* update the OGL -- but one of the terms of the OGL is that ALL VERSIONS OF IT remain valid, and material released under one version of the OGL can be released under any other. That's why there's a GSL -- because releasing 4e under any "new" OGL is the same as releasing it under any old one.

EDIT: Sorry I was agreeing with you but being snarky.

The issue is how much does 4E take from the SRD/OGL, anything that's covered in the OGL is still there, even if it's also in the GSL. There just seem to be some minor changes that could easily be derived from OGL material that are 4E.

Passive Perception and Saves changed to static defenses for example. They're simply a Take 10 on the check. That's already in the OGL.

Triple max hp at 1st, that's in the Pathfinder free pdf, and a few other places. Max hp every level, that's easy enough too.

The healing surges and Second Wind might be harder to trace directly from existing OGL materials. Second Wind is in Star Wars Saga, but that's not OGL.

The saves change to d6, I don't think that's out there.

Adding a Reflex bonus from shields, that's simple enough.

It's the brand new from whole cloth powers that would be the issue. Most of them are variants of Talents though (at-will and daily), so it's easy to get those in spirit, if not straight out of existing material. As for the per encounter set-up, that's new.

 

[Erik Mona]

If the Pathfinder RPG is one of the top five bestselling products that Paizo publishes in 2009, I will eat a stinky sock.

LOL. Please send me your home address.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC

 

[TrainedMunkee]

LOL. Please send me your home address.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC

You have to wear the sock from now until your release.

 

[Lizard]

Wait a sec... Did you already get the GSL? So you know what has been allowed and what has been disallowed? What is this "loss" you are talking about?

They've made it very clear what the GSL will be and what it won't allow. While the specifics may still be under debate, the general shape of it is that it will be far more restrictive than the OGL, with the intent of allowing D&D supplements, not opening up a game system. It will also be unlikely to create new companies the way the OGL did; instead, existing companies which came about due to the OGL boom will now be direct competitors with WOTC, instead of partners. Thus far, only two companies have committed to 4e, and they're making the kind of things WOTC intends. (Ironically, Goodman Games began with precisely the kinds of products WOTC now wishes to ban...) Of course, we'll have to see if they'll keep their commitment after seeing the actual terms of the GSL...

The GSL is not any kind of 'new' or 'revised' OGL. It is a fairly standard 'license to produce supplements' of the sort which was common back in the days of Judge's Guild and Mayfair. Scream "You haven't seen it!" all you like; WOTC has made very clear what it's going to be. If you're expecting anything OGL-like...you're going to be disappointed.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

LOL. Please send me your home address.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC

Please send the sock to me first and I will give it to my rat to play with before sending it along to this fellow.

 

[JoeGKushner]

There's a whole lot of unfounded binary thinking going on here in this thread, too. Just because someone buys the eventual Pathfinder rulebook & adventures doesn't mean they aren't also interested in 4e books (and vice versa). Being interested in one doesn't mean that you have to repudiate the other, though you wouldn't know it reading half the posts here...

I've mentioned a few times that I'll still be playing 3.5 and will likely check 4e out. Just as I currently enjoy a game of Warhammer, Fantasy Hero, HARP or even (Gasp!) Palladium Fantasy.

I think there are a lot of people thought who feel that they can ONLY play ONE system.

Their loss.

 

[Logos7]

Is this the one time i do hope it socks?

Maybe eric should start a sock fund because dude's not the only one willing to eat sock if it happens.

So how exactly does addressing the issues in 3.5 going to ensure backwards capability? How do you make a new game when your fans are convinced nothing needs to change, or at least unable to agree. How much can you change before your no longer 3.5+ but 4.0 -

What i was hoping was for necromancer games to do this kind of silliness and for paizo to go forward to forth. Its great to say "nobody is hurt" but the moral of the story is the game company I like is not making the product I want. Thats a loss in my book.

and yes I know necro is kicking it up 4th, I just wish I liked their stuff instead of paizo....

Logos

 

[Greylock]

Well, I never said there was anything wrong with boycotting WotC. I may have said that I doubted people would actually do it.

When WotC ditched Dragon, I swore on that day that I'd never buy another WotC publication. Said it here, said it to my friends, said it to the owners of both of my FLGSs. And I also decided that day that I'd support Paizo in any endeavor, regardless of whether I liked the product or not. Fortunately for me, everything they've done so far, they've aced.

Paizo is not alone in benefiting from the freeing up of my RPG dollars. Troll Lords has gotten a rather magnificent share, as have Goodman Games and Necromancer. Reaper and Magnificent Egos have managed to take what remains after the feeding frenzy on my weekly paycheck.

And man, a lot of this anger, genuine anger, at Paizo seems to boil down to "you're not allowed to game any way but my way". There's been the rather upfront attitude that people who aren't bowled over in love with 4E are broken somehow, and to be either mocked or pitied. Now that a major (minor) publisher agrees with us, it suddenly becomes "we're ruining it for them". And to that, I just wanna say hush.