Pathfinder 1E Paizo Annoucement!

[Jeff Wilder]

It's more tense to realize that *at your best*, you still might not be good enough.

Well, I don't agree, but it seems to me that 3.5 supports this feeling, in addition to the "running on fumes" feeling. As far as I can tell, 4E is not going to support "running on fumes" much, if at all. Maybe during an encounter -- something 3.5 also supports -- but not going into an encounter.

 

[Azzy]

This.

It's more tense to realize that *at your best*, you still might not be good enough.

And that's cool, too, but it loses something when it's every encounter rather than limited to the more climatic battles.

 

[Firevalkyrie]

Well, I don't agree, but it seems to me that 3.5 supports this feeling, in addition to the "running on fumes" feeling. As far as I can tell, 4E is not going to support "running on fumes" much, if at all. Maybe during an encounter -- something 3.5 also supports -- but not going into an encounter.

In my first playtest session, my players blew through their dailies very early on and had to run on per-encounters and at-wills for about ~70% of the session (the party rested up just before they hit the BBEG). That was very tense - the PEs are good but not THAT good, and you always blow through them more quickly than you thought you would. Not having the "reserve" oomph of your dailies available makes things very harrowing, very quickly.

 

[Azzy]

In my first playtest session, my players blew through their dailies very early on and had to run on per-encounters and at-wills for about ~70% of the session (the party rested up just before they hit the BBEG). That was very tense - the PEs are good but not THAT good, and you always blow through them more quickly than you thought you would. Not having the "reserve" oomph of your dailies available makes things very harrowing, very quickly.

You're a playtester?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Huh. The most enjoyable source of drama for me is when you HAVE stopped, and you ARE rested up, and you're STILL not sure if you'll survive the fight with the BBEG.

That's good too-- but different.

I enjoy the last round of a Rocky fight more than the first.

As far as I can tell, 4E is not going to support "running on fumes" much, if at all. Maybe during an encounter -- something 3.5 also supports -- but not going into an encounter.

I can only assume you haven't paid much attention then. Where did you get the impression that 4e encounters have you going in at full strength every time? Your character has a suite of per encounter abilities, per rest abilities, and per day abilities, with the weakest abilities at the left end of that scale. A 4e DM who wants to push the action can deny you per rest and per day abilities just the same as a 3e DM can.

 

[Eldragon]

To bring this topic kicking and screaming back to Paizo and Pathfinder RPG, I'm pretty excited about it.

Their decision to have an open playtest at least lets players see what changes are going in, and why. Designers make mistakes, but having 10,000 hardcore rules lawyers and munchkins pouring over the rules is going to have a lot of excellent insights (and an even greater number fo stupid ones).

Until I have the 4e PHB in my hand, I'm not going to throw my support behind it. So at least with Pathfinder RPG I can play a system that fixes the broken parts of 3.5 without losing my investment in WotC produced books.

 

[Ingolf]

Have you considered running different games on alternate weeks. That what my group would do whenever we wanted to play more than one RPG.

Most of us tend to favor fairly plot-heavy campaigns with lots of ongoing character development, and playing every-other week somewhat gets in the way of that. We are all, alas, grownups, with careers and families and all the other things that tend to drive out the fiddly little details of last week's game, to say nothing of the game before that.

What we do instead is rotate DMs at the end of each campaign "story arc" with an occasional (though rare) change of system. Right now we're wrapping up a SWSE game on the heels of a year-long Ptolus campaign, then a filler game (non D&D as it happens) until 4e is released in June.

Also, I agree completely with your opinion of the "haters" - and I think it's gotten a lot worse since Paizo's announcement. I've read the free Pathfinder RPG .pdf and it failed to impress, but I still wish them well, even though I am dissapointed they will not be supporting 4e.

 

[Wormwood]

And that's cool, too, but it loses something when it's every encounter rather than limited to the more climatic battles.

I totally get what you're saying, and you may be right.

But if I only have time for a few encounters an evening, I want every one of them to be as exciting as possible.

The way I see it (and the Oakhurst game really showcased this) is that in addition to having each encounter get progressively more difficult until you hit the climax, I really like it when that progressive difficulty occurs within a single encounter.

The first wave of minions hits the party. Then, while the party easily dispatches them, a second wave of heavier hitters shows up and lays on the pressure. Finally, the real bad-asses enter and lays down the smack.

All in one encounter, with each encounter scaling up to the final boss fight.

 

[hong]

That's good too-- but different.

I enjoy the last round of a Rocky fight more than the first.

Technically, that is within-encounter combat intensity management, which is an entirely different kettle of fish to between-encounter adventure pacing. I enjoy the last round of a Rocky fight more than the first as well. This is another of my beefs with 1/2/3E, in fact; that there's generally no incentive to hold back your big guns assuming you're going to use them. 4E's bloodied condition is a mechanism for dealing with this, although to what extent it gets used remains to be seen.

 

[Dragonblade]

Wulf, I may not always agree with you, but I appreciate your thoughts even though I may seem argumentative at times.

I bet you run a hell of a game!