Pathfinder 1E Paizo Annoucement!

[Wulf Ratbane]

Technically, that is within-encounter combat intensity management.

Let's not get technical. I think you and I are largely on the same page.

Knock-down, drag-out fights should be the norm. I want the players to be able to use their cool powers in every fight.

And I also want to be able to challenge them on that "running on fumes" feeling. But that should be a dramatic exception, not, as it happens now, simply every fourth fight.

 

[Wormwood]

I enjoy the last round of a Rocky fight more than the first.

Hmm.

I see a boxing match as a encounter, you see each round as an encounter.

I hadn't considered that.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wulf, I may not always agree with you, but I appreciate your thoughts even though I may seem argumentative at times.

I suspect that the most significant difference between us is that you're enthusiastically embracing 4e, and I am (so far) not.

(But it's not the mechanics holding me back, it's the tone.)

I bet you run a hell of a game!

"Big piles of dead bad guys."

 

[Ingolf]

Until I have the 4e PHB in my hand, I'm not going to throw my support behind it. So at least with Pathfinder RPG I can play a system that fixes the broken parts of 3.5 without losing my investment in WotC produced books.

I am just not convinced it's possible to fix the broken parts of 3.5 without revisiting some of the fundamental assumptions of the game. The "sweet spot" problem in particular is very difficult to get around without a wholesale review of the game, t least in my eyes.

As to preserving your investment in 3.5, I can certainly understand that. On the other hand, I bought a lot of 3.5 material fully aware that I'd never use it. I buy a lot of games just to read them and maybe loot ideas from them.

 

[Firevalkyrie]

You're a playtester?

No (sorry, I should have used different terminology, but "playtest" was the first thing that came to mind). I downloaded the PDFs from here and ran a game last weekend. Granted things could run differently in the "real" game with more abilities available, but from what I saw, once you start using your dailies, you really are not going into encounters at your peak capacity, and attrition is a very real threat. You're just not going to have the encounters where somebody is completely unable to meaningfully contribute because all they can do is plink away with a crossbow and a +0 attack modifier and pray that they roll a 16-20.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Hmm.

I see a boxing match as a encounter, you see each round as an encounter.

I hadn't considered that.

Well, the fighters do retire to the corner after each round. That's a break in the action even if it isn't much of a rest period.

If there was no bell between rounds, and they fought for 45 minutes straight, I could see your point.

Bleh. It was a facile analogy-- let's not dwell on it too long.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Where did you get the impression that 4e encounters have you going in at full strength every time?

I didn't say "full strength." I said "not running on fumes."

Your character has a suite of per encounter abilities, per rest abilities, and per day abilities, with the weakest abilities at the left end of that scale. A 4e DM who wants to push the action can deny you per rest and per day abilities just the same as a 3e DM can.

I guess I haven't been paying attention. What's a "per rest" ability?

And if the closest 4E gets to "running on fumes" is "down one really good attack" (and I'm pretty sure it does), my overall point certainly stands.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I guess I haven't been paying attention. What's a "per rest" ability?

Something that you only get after a 5 minute rest.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Something that you only get after a 5 minute rest.

What's an example of this, preferably from the XP characters? This is the first I've heard of this, and I've been reading this forum for a while now.

As to my point, an encounter is presumed to take five minutes. So if you've finished an encounter, I can't imagine too many circumstances wherein you can't take a brief rest ... nor, given the healing surge mechanics, too many circumstances in which you wouldn't need to do so. So even if "per rest" abilities exist, they're not going to be lacking, and thus they're irrelevant in terms of "running on fumes."

Another thing I find interesting is the claim that an encounter without "per day" powers is "very harrowing" and (presumably) genuinely risky. No offense, but for the vast majority of encounters, I don't believe that. 4E is designed for multiple encounters in succession, and only in one of those encounters is any given "per day" power available. Making every other encounter genuinely risky is extraordinarily poor game design. If you don't want TPKs on a regular basis, you don't design for "fair fights." Some risk, sure, but "very harrowing"? I doubt it.

 

[Lacyon]

What's an example of this, preferably from the XP characters? This is the first I've heard of this, and I've been reading this forum for a while now.

As to my point, an encounter is presumed to take five minutes.

All per encounter abilities refresh after a 'short rest' of five minutes. If you don't have time for a 'short rest', you don't get them back.

The encounter itself could be over in 30 seconds or 15 minutes.