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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JmanTheDM" data-source="post: 8590895" data-attributes="member: 6791902">my 2 cents.  I'm nearing the end of book one - but what does "near" and "end" mean in a dungeon crawl <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />i was very lucky and planted some seeds prior to starting AV - that turned out to be very good guesses - specifically around Belcorra and the thieves guild.  This inadvertently created some additional scaffolding to hang this story off of.  like I said, luckyhere are my thoughts on this AP:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you start the adventure at the mouth of the dungeon.  no preamble, no real back story, no real reason why you are there, you just are.  this'll take some work to kick things off - and I believe spending some time in your starting town and making connections to the thieves guild and a few others will pay off.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">there is some in-dungeon intrigue - through the assignment of "side quests".  if you are like most groups, you'll kill the monster before you talk to them.  so, weaving these side plots will take some work - but its there</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">you do need to read the entire adventure to learn about all the side quests.  it makes sense when the PC's are in town to start laying those quests out before you hit that level.  this requires some prep and foreknowledge otherwise it'll feel a bit ham fisted ("why am I meeting this book dealer now?")</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the dungeon is tightly spaced.  claustrophobic even.  its very easy to have the physical space "nail the encounter" in place.  this is particularly acute in PF2 - due to the way encounter balancing works.  you do not want to normally have a mobile fight and stumble into another room of baddies.  in PF2, merging fights will turn a "moderate" fight into a near certain TPK</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">per the point immediately above, this is where I think AV would play better with 5e than PF2.  fights can become more mobile and leverage more space, because encounter balance is more forgiving and merging additional encounter areas into a "grand" fight scene is feasible.  this is a big plus IMO of 5e over PF2, and can eliminate the claustrophobic feel of the dungeon if played into and exploited by players and GM.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the dungeon has good "jaquaying the dungeon" design.  lots of ways to get in, move around, and plan for non-linear movement</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">the size feels good for a "mega" dungeon.  but for 5e players not used to PF2 adventures.  dungeon's and levels feel "samey" because Paizo wants to sell physical battlemaps, so dungeon levels need to fit inside the physical dimensions of battlemaps <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Each level has a feel to it and a theme - mostly clearly communicated - there are libraries, and personal studies, and fighting pits, etc.  levels all describe at the beginning the "feel" of each level.  playing up to those will help greatly give the dungeon life.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">monster placement mostly make sense.  this isn't "old school" where you have room a with orcs and room b with a dragon, and the dragon never uses orcs as a food supply <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.  there has been thought given to ecology and explaining why certain monsters are in certain areas - especially those that stand apart from the level's meta theme.  nothing felt overly contrived.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">this really is a get in, kick the door down, slay the beasts, take the loot adventure.  its unabashed about it.  the game starts with you at the door and its up to the GM to weave any more story into the game that they see fit.  if you or your players do not like get in, kick the door down, slay the beasts, take the loot adventures - this will not work for you.  like, at all.</li> </ul>I'm running it for a group of first time PF2 players, and for 1/2 the group, 1st time TTRPG players.  they are having fun and the constraints listed above have somewhat turned into advantages because of player inexperience.YMMVCheers,J.</blockquote>

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