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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7814392" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>But that same player community would argue that they could find a way to produce a goal and approach that the DM could determine was possibly successful or had uncertainty to it so that a roll is called for.  So I think the objection is moot.  Whether the player asks for a check, rolls the insight without consulting the DM first or plays by goal and approach there methods he could have had a chance to determine the dragons true intentions.  The important point you keep forgetting is that he didn't try any of that.  He just assumed the dragon was truthful and honest and didn't think for a second why it asked him for the man instead of just taking him in the first place.</p></blockquote><p></p>