D&D 5E Paladin just committed murder - what should happen next?

[firstkyne]

During our session tonight, the party's paladin got in trouble. He was carrying an injured NPC to safety. Unfortunately, an adult dragon cornered him.
"Give me that man, and you can live. I hunger" it said. I had hoped he would stare it down with a bit of god-fuelled determination.
"OK" Said the paladin, and the dragon flew off with the screaming man.
The player admitted, 'I wanted to live'. He figured he should live to fight another day (and continue on the world-saving adventure the party are part way through).
I don't want to punish the player so much that he drops out of the game, but I think there have to be repercussions (ours is not a slapstick murderhobo game).
He is 7th level with a level of warlock (! I know...)
How would you handle this. If he becomes an oathbreaker, does that replace his previous paladin levels, so he becomes a 7th level oathbreaker?
Is that too punishing?
If he becomes an oathbreaker, I plan to talk to him about taking a vow to find a way back into his gods good graces, such as by returning to slay the dragon AND find resurrection for the dead man.

 

[Prakriti]

First thing's first: You and the player have to agree that his character's actions deserve punishment. If you can't agree on that, then it's probably best to let it go. From what you say, the player seems to think that he made the right choice, and personally, I'm not sure he didn't. Unless there's something specifically in his oath about defending the helpless against impossible odds, then there might not be any justification for punishing him. There is nothing in "lawful good" that says you have to risk death on someone else's behalf.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

What's his oath. It depends if he actually broke it.

 

[CleverNickName]

@Prakriti is right: you and the player both need to agree that this is a punishable offense before you dish out any consequences. Otherwise, you invite all sorts of problems--lack of trust being the biggest.

But I disagree with Prakriti on the less-important issue of whether or not what the paladin did was "wrong." I think the paladin demonstrated a lack of mercy and a lack of bravery, and submitted to the bidding of an evil creatue...all of which directly contributed to the death of an innocent person. And why? To save his own hide. So in my opinion, yes, the paladin should be punished, or at least made to atone somehow.

But what I think doesn't matter. You need to chat with your player and discuss what should happen next.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Doug McCrae]

How had the paladin been played up to this point? Was he often taking on impossible odds because it's the right thing to do or was he more pragmatic?

 

[BookBarbarian]

I could absolutely see a Vengeance Paladin making this choice and still being well within the tenets of their oath. Conquest too.

However, if this is counter to this Paladin's oath's tenets i would stat having the character receive dreams implicating that their oath was on shaky grounds, and then talk to the Player about where that player wants the character to go.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

That's not murder. I mean, it is, by the dragon. The paladin did nothing wrong here.

I don't know about this specific paladin's oath, but even in 2E, this would have been a case of reasonable discretion. You can't save everyone, and there's nothing Good about getting yourself killed for a doomed cause.

They'll probably have a guilt trip about it, and that's enough of a punishment, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Hawk Diesel]

This is a super interesting conundrum.

So first, I would be remiss not to mention the fact that 5e is very different than previous editions. There are no alignment restrictions, and no true mechanical implications for acting in ways unbecoming of a paladin. While there is a lot of story elements contained within a paladin's oath, there is no mechanical requirement that a paladin must follow their oath. In the PHB, there is the sidebar about how paladins are fallible, and that any consequences of breaking an oath without seeking some sort of penance is left to the DM to decide. But even then, outside of some guidelines, there is no single or even "correct" answer.

Much like a warlock's patron, the paladin's oath provides some built in role playing opportunities, but this does not necessitate a mechanical or even immediate consequence for failing as a paladin. Additionally, as has been suggested by others, this does to a degree depend on that oath. Some oaths may not concern themselves with the protection of the innocent.

Another thing to consider is that unlike in previous editions, 5e paladins are not automatically linked to a deity or religion. So the question becomes, who is the in-game authority or arbiter that would decide the severity of the paladin's transgression, if he did indeed transgress, and the consequences? Does the character worship a particular deity or pantheon, and are they a paladin inspired by this higher power? Are they a member of an organization of paladins with their own code of conduct? Or are they a lone entity that draws upon their own faith and discipline in this code of conduct they place upon themselves?

If they are a part of a religion, then the consequences could come from that organization or directly from the deity as a form of divine intervention. This is likely the quickest and most direct form of consequence. They may receive visions from this high power that requires some act of penance to address their sin, and if the paladin chooses not to follow along, then they may find themselves exchanging their oath for the Oathbreaker, or divine agents may come to either capture the paladin to put on trial, or assassins to kill him.

If they are a part of a paladin organization, then the consequences may be slower and dependent on how the organization obtains information of the paladin's misdeeds. This is unlikely to force the player into an oathbreaker or any other mechanical implications, but more likely for agents to be sent after him or being cut-off from assistance.

If they are a "lone wolf" paladin that has created this code of conduct from themselves, then it really should more come from the player as to how this manifests. I mean, think about what would happen to Batman if he ever had to use a gun or take a life. He wouldn't stop being Batman, but his actions would have greater psychological impacts (though this doesn't even take into consideration if there were any laws broken).

TL;DR: How does this character relate to the game world as a paladin, and where does this power come from? A god? An organization? Or themselves? This should help drive the determination of transgression, and the impact of not seeking penance.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The same thing that would happen if they were a knight with the same background and part of the same knightly order.

Do not change the player's character sheet. If they agree that there should be repurcussions, talk to them about what that should look like. If they like the idea of you doing the work in secret and letting them discover the consequences in play as their character does, cool. If not, let them rebuild their character as they see fit. Maybe they temporarily become a Cavalier Fighter, maybe they change their oath to one that doesn't conflict with what they did(n't do), maybe something else. It shouldn't be up to you, though. It's their character.