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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7818056" data-attributes="member: 22779">IOW, I, as the player, should assume that the DM will not kill my character (as the DM is the source of divine providence) and should meta-game accordingly?No thanks.&nbsp; And, as a DM, I would kill your character every single time.&nbsp; I certainly would not expect the DM to deus ex machina my survival and in fact would strongly resent such an intrusion.&nbsp; Now, you can frame that however you like, but, sorry, no, blinding stupidity is not something I ever reward in my games.&nbsp; That police officer in [USER=4937]@Celebrim[/USER]'s example isn't a hero, but a reckless idiot who put his own personal honor ahead of any possibility of saving the child.&nbsp; The paladin had only two choices - die with the NPC or not.&nbsp; There was no sense that the NPC was going to survive any of this.&nbsp; And, if we say that it's ok, so long as the paladin fought back, then, well, all we're doing is arguing over price.Say the paladin fights back.&nbsp; Dragon breathes on the both of them, instantly killing the NPC and hurting the paladin.&nbsp; The dragon than grabs the body, and leaves.&nbsp; Is honor now satisfied?&nbsp; NPC is still dead.&nbsp; Exactly how much damage does the paladin need to suffer before honor is satisfied?&nbsp; Say the dragon just grabs the body and leaves.&nbsp; Oh, I guess that's ok, since the paladin didn't &quot;give&quot; him the body.&nbsp; Just totally failed to protect the NPC.&nbsp; But, he didn't &quot;give&quot; the NPC away, so, it's okay.And, as far as &quot;hope&quot; goes, please, Pemerton, RTFM.&nbsp; This is 5e.&nbsp; This is NOT how paladins were in other editions.&nbsp; The oaths of different paladins are DIFFERENT.&nbsp; There is no one size fits all answer here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7818056, member: 22779"] IOW, I, as the player, should assume that the DM will not kill my character (as the DM is the source of divine providence) and should meta-game accordingly? No thanks. And, as a DM, I would kill your character every single time. I certainly would not expect the DM to deus ex machina my survival and in fact would strongly resent such an intrusion. Now, you can frame that however you like, but, sorry, no, blinding stupidity is not something I ever reward in my games. That police officer in [USER=4937]@Celebrim[/USER]'s example isn't a hero, but a reckless idiot who put his own personal honor ahead of any possibility of saving the child. The paladin had only two choices - die with the NPC or not. There was no sense that the NPC was going to survive any of this. And, if we say that it's ok, so long as the paladin fought back, then, well, all we're doing is arguing over price. Say the paladin fights back. Dragon breathes on the both of them, instantly killing the NPC and hurting the paladin. The dragon than grabs the body, and leaves. Is honor now satisfied? NPC is still dead. Exactly how much damage does the paladin need to suffer before honor is satisfied? Say the dragon just grabs the body and leaves. Oh, I guess that's ok, since the paladin didn't "give" him the body. Just totally failed to protect the NPC. But, he didn't "give" the NPC away, so, it's okay. And, as far as "hope" goes, please, Pemerton, RTFM. This is 5e. This is NOT how paladins were in other editions. The oaths of different paladins are DIFFERENT. There is no one size fits all answer here. [/QUOTE]

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